Jump to content

Welcome to FutureTimeline.forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Do you think men will ever be able to have babies?


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#21
Alric

Alric

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,087 posts

So I am guessing you think treatments that allow sterile woman to get pregnant is also pointless too? Since the technology that allows for this would likely help in that area as well. One could say that going to the moon was unnecessary, unnatural, and dangerous yet we did it any way. The reason why, is  because if there is something that we want to do, we should do it. It is going to happen, in time, I am pretty sure about that. Humans are curious and as our knowledge expands we are going to do stuff like that, for no other reason than because we can and it will be a good thing. 

 

I am not sure how you can say it is pointless. If it makes even a single person happy, then it worth doing.



#22
StanleyAlexander

StanleyAlexander

    Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon, USA, Earth, 2063

Is it unnecessary in many ways?  Yes.  Could it ever be physically possible?  Yes.  Will it actually ever happen?  Absolutely.

 

Speaking very generally, a broad trend in human society indicates that the individual is becoming more and more able to influence their own life--their own body, environment, time--their whole existence.  If it can be done, literally millions of earth's 7 billion (and counting...) people will want to do this on some level.  If certain physical, social and legal conditions are met, thousands will be capable and perhaps hundreds will actually get it done, and that feels conservative.

 

Those conditions--physiological, mental, social, legal--are very real.  Nevertheless, I bet we'll see earth's first true MacDuff before 2050.


Edited by StanleyAlexander, 02 July 2013 - 09:31 PM.

Humanity's destiny is infinity

#23
StanleyAlexander

StanleyAlexander

    Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon, USA, Earth, 2063

My edit was the first sentence in my post: "Is it unnecessary in many ways?".  It originally read, "Is it pointless and unnecessary in many ways?".  I removed 'pointless' because after reading Alric's post I agree that it wouldn't be pointless at all from the perspective of the individual--IMO an increasingly important perspective to take.


Humanity's destiny is infinity

#24
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
I agree that the future of humanity doesn't lie in viviparous breeding, but rather artificial wombs and whatnot. The only argument that speaks in favour of this is equality: There are some men that want to share this special mother-child-bond that happens during pregnancy without being a woman. The question is if this group is large enough to represent a viable demand, so that such a development wouldn't be completely pointless. I am still undecided, personally, but I tend to see it as rather unnecessary.

Well, (no offense) you're not a man, so you are unable to fully understand the desire that some men (such as myself, and Yes, I would be willing to get a permanent sex change for this) have for this. Try thinking about it more from the perspective of a man (or former man) who wants to do this, rather than from a perspective of a woman with an X-X chromosome combination (I apologize if I appear offensive or insensitive, but that is not my intention here--I am simply trying to make a point). I am not transgender in a strict sense of the word, but there are some transgender women (who were formerly biological men) who would probably want to do this, and we know that society nowadays is very tolerant and accepting and accommodating disadvantaged people and whatnot.


Edited by Futurist, 02 July 2013 - 09:57 PM.


#25
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
The money would be better spent on things like researching cures for illnesses and diseased, not letting someone go through an unnecessary, unnatural and possibly dangerous and certainly completely pointless pregnancy.

After about after all of this research for cures is completed? After all, eventually technology and technological advancements could certainly give us enough time and resources to pursue this. Also, you're guilty of the naturalistic fallacy here. And I think that by the time men (and/or former men) are able to get pregnant, pregnancy will become as safe or almost as safe for them as it is currently for (most) women.



#26
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
1. It is entirely normal for people to have those sort of thoughts, and I suspect it will happy fairly soon. Within the next 20 years most likely. What I am curious about, is if they will have virtual reality before then or not. I would think that experiencing being a woman and having a child in virtual reality is probably easier on people, than going through a lot of physical changes. At least for people who are more curious at first, rather than strongly committed to the idea.

 

2. Though eventually(next 30-50 years) I think we will get to the point were gender reassignment will be easy enough that a person could switch back and forth, and it isn't going to be as big of a deal. So you can switch genders at whim. By then we might not even have entirely human genders, and I suppose some might not even have a gender.

1. What about dealing with the possibility (or fact) that a uterus might not work (properly) in a body with X-Y chromosomes? This might take a much longer amount of time than 20 years to handle in real life. I agree with you about the possibility of virtual reality, but (at least for me) something real is much better than something virtual or imaginary. 2. I don't think so. Basically, switching genders involves a lot of hormone changes, surgeries, transplants (such as a uterus implant or a uterus removal), and transitioning. I don't see this changing any time soon, and possibly ever.


Edited by Futurist, 02 July 2013 - 10:07 PM.


#27
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth

As a side note, this might appear incredible offensive and/or insensitive, but one can likewise say "Oh, yeah, sex changes (and everything that comes along with them) are completely unnecessary. If you are transgender, he/she should simply cross-dress and/or suck it up. You can still enjoy some things in life (food, movies, et cetera), and you'll be dead within the next 120 years at the very most, and probably sooner (if anti-aging technology is not developed by that point in time)." I think that everyone can see how incredibly offensive this statement is. It is also worth noting that AFAIK transgender people only make up a tiny percentage of the total population. For that matter, plastic surgery and whatnot is actually extremely unnecessary in many cases.


Edited by Futurist, 02 July 2013 - 10:07 PM.


#28
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth

As a side note, I once met someone whose father died young due to a very rare form of cancer that people haven't bothered trying to treat yet. I think that it is incredibly selfish for such people (such as his father) to die in the future when we'll have much more resources, time, and technology to figure out how to treat such very rare diseases and how to do other very rare things (such as men and/or former men becoming pregnant) that some people want or might want to do.



#29
Alric

Alric

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,087 posts

They have already successfully used gene therapy to cause mice to develop sexual features of the other gender. They even had full form ovaries turn into testes like structures that produced testosterone, though it wasn't a perfect change. I suspect once we have advanced gene therapy and nanobots, so that the nanobot could deliver changes to specific cells and alter genes in one part of the body and not other parts, it will make thing changing the human body very easy.



#30
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
They have already successfully used gene therapy to cause mice to develop sexual features of the other gender. They even had full form ovaries turn into testes like structures that produced testosterone, though it wasn't a perfect change. I suspect once we have advanced gene therapy and nanobots, so that the nanobot could deliver changes to specific cells and alter genes in one part of the body and not other parts, it will make thing changing the human body very easy.

Will it also be able to change one's chromosomes and to make transmen (biological women who later became men) produce sperm exactly like regular men, and the reverse for transwomen?



#31
Lily

Lily

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • LocationBerlin
I agree that the future of humanity doesn't lie in viviparous breeding, but rather artificial wombs and whatnot. The only argument that speaks in favour of this is equality: There are some men that want to share this special mother-child-bond that happens during pregnancy without being a woman. The question is if this group is large enough to represent a viable demand, so that such a development wouldn't be completely pointless. I am still undecided, personally, but I tend to see it as rather unnecessary.

Well, (no offense) you're not a man, so you are unable to fully understand the desire that some men (such as myself, and Yes, I would be willing to get a permanent sex change for this) have for this. Try thinking about it more from the perspective of a man (or former man) who wants to do this, rather than from a perspective of a woman with an X-X chromosome combination (I apologize if I appear offensive or insensitive, but that is not my intention here--I am simply trying to make a point). I am not transgender in a strict sense of the word, but there are some transgender women (who were formerly biological men) who would probably want to do this, and we know that society nowadays is very tolerant and accepting and accommodating disadvantaged people and whatnot.

 

Yeah, I get that it's somewhat difficult for me to imagine how it might feel for a man. I have the privilege of having the natural aptitude to bear children if I wish so, so I should probably reconsider. I am not offenden by your argument, and I hope you are not offended by my statement. I already stated that the unique mother-child bond that is formed during pregnancy and in my opinion goes much further is something some men might want to pursue and, in some time in the future, could become reality for them. I don't know much about this, though. It's honestly not something I've looked into too much, seeing that I am indeed female and grew up knowing that the possibility is there - even though I currently have no plans to make use of it. Actually, that's quite ironic and must be really hard for men wanting this. To know that there are people who are wasting (?) the chance they got by nature.

 

I'm sorry if it sounds naive and stupid - it's just quite hard to relate for me.


"All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

There's definitely truth in that...


#32
Alric

Alric

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,087 posts

We can already make artificial sperm and eggs. So theoretically a man could give his dna in the lab and have an artificial egg made, and it could be fertilized by the sperm of another man, and he could have the child. The child would be biologically the child of both men. That is what we are in the early process of doing today. We can also do the same with two woman. Have one woman's dna taken and make it into an artificial sperm and put it into another woman and biologically it would be the child of both woman.

 

If we can do that today, then in 20-30 years with exponential growth in technology, I think it is extremely likely that it will be possible for men and woman to change genders and be reproductively viable.



#33
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
I agree that the future of humanity doesn't lie in viviparous breeding, but rather artificial wombs and whatnot. The only argument that speaks in favour of this is equality: There are some men that want to share this special mother-child-bond that happens during pregnancy without being a woman. The question is if this group is large enough to represent a viable demand, so that such a development wouldn't be completely pointless. I am still undecided, personally, but I tend to see it as rather unnecessary.

Well, (no offense) you're not a man, so you are unable to fully understand the desire that some men (such as myself, and Yes, I would be willing to get a permanent sex change for this) have for this. Try thinking about it more from the perspective of a man (or former man) who wants to do this, rather than from a perspective of a woman with an X-X chromosome combination (I apologize if I appear offensive or insensitive, but that is not my intention here--I am simply trying to make a point). I am not transgender in a strict sense of the word, but there are some transgender women (who were formerly biological men) who would probably want to do this, and we know that society nowadays is very tolerant and accepting and accommodating disadvantaged people and whatnot.

 

Yeah, I get that it's somewhat difficult for me to imagine how it might feel for a man. I have the privilege of having the natural aptitude to bear children if I wish so, so I should probably reconsider. I am not offended by your argument, and I hope you are not offended by my statement. I already stated that the unique mother-child bond that is formed during pregnancy and in my opinion goes much further is something some men might want to pursue and, in some time in the future, could become reality for them. I don't know much about this, though. It's honestly not something I've looked into too much, seeing that I am indeed female and grew up knowing that the possibility is there - even though I currently have no plans to make use of it. Actually, that's quite ironic and must be really hard for men wanting this. To know that there are people who are wasting (?) the chance they got by nature.

 

I'm sorry if it sounds naive and stupid - it's just quite hard to relate for me.

Don't worry, I am not offended by your statement. I simply think that it is a good idea to analyze, examine, and understand all of the sides of a specific argument/position so that one is fully able to understand it. (As a side note, one can still have an opinion/position on something even if this thing/issue does not personally affect him/her, since to say otherwise would be an ad hominem fallacy.) I'm glad that you were not offended by my argument. Yeah, some men and women are uninterested in fully "exploring" the body and whatnot of the other gender, but some people such as myself (and transgender people, et cetera) are very interested in the fully "exploring" the body of the other biological gender. I don't know about other men who want to be pregnant, but knowing that you and some other women never get and never want to get pregnant isn't something that I'm upset about or something which is hard for me to handle. Everyone should have the right to do whatever he or she wants with his or her body as long as they do not violate anyone else's rights (or the rights that someone else should have*). If you never want to get pregnant, that's perfectly fine with me. After all, it's your body, not mine. I am disappointed that I do not have the ability to be pregnant, though. I am probably willing to endure a lot to get this ability, even a sex change (which, despite the fact that I am not transgender in a strict sense, is actually a very appealing idea to me in the future once trans-women are able to become pregnant and once sex changes and everything that comes with them becomes less risky, troublesome, and burdensome). In addition, I am annoyed by my gender due to the current stupid abortion and child support laws. I don't see why a (straight) man such as myself should automatically risk being forced to pay child support when having sex with a woman, even if the woman promises this man before sex that she will get an abortion and then changes her mind later on and gives birth. Women have an opt-out after s*x (abortion), while men don't even have an opt-out before s*x which allows them to actually have s*x later on. Hopefully male contraception such as RISUG (which, even though they say it is 100% efficient, I fear is more like 99.99% or 99.95% efficient, but still way better than the status quo) will make things fairer for men such as myself in the near future in regards to this. Also, another thing which I strongly like about the female body are the magic female nipples. Even though my own (male) nipples are seductive, they are not nearly as magical as the nipples of a woman such as yourself (if you catch my drift). As a side note, and I truly apologize if this is offensive, but I think that in gay-friendly countries, gay/lesbian (I know that you dislike this term, but it is the English dictionary term for a woman who likes another woman) and bisexual women "have it better" than straight women, since in my honest opinion women are so much hotter than men, and such women can also please themselves (if you catch my drift) by hearing hot clothes and outfits themselves rather than by having someone else war these hot clothes and outfits.

 

And don't worry--you don't sound naive and/or stupid at all. :)

 

As for this part (the *), an example to what I was referring to is abortion. If one thinks that embryos and fetuses should have legal personhood, then in his/her view it could be morally unjustifiable to for a woman to deny an embryo/fetus the use of her body (at least in most cases) even if this woman genuinely wants to deny this embryo/fetus the use of her body.


Edited by Futurist, 03 July 2013 - 01:12 AM.


#34
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
1. We can already make artificial sperm and eggs. So theoretically a man could give his dna in the lab and have an artificial egg made, and it could be fertilized by the sperm of another man, and he could have the child. The child would be biologically the child of both men. That is what we are in the early process of doing today. We can also do the same with two woman. Have one woman's dna taken and make it into an artificial sperm and put it into another woman and biologically it would be the child of both woman.

 

2. If we can do that today, then in 20-30 years with exponential growth in technology, I think it is extremely likely that it will be possible for men and woman to change genders and be reproductively viable.

 

1. Would this child simply/only have two fathers or two mothers or would this child have two fathers AND one mother or two mothers and one father? 2. Does this include successful uterus transplants into and successful pregnancies in biological men (and/or former biological men) with X-Y chromosomes in 20-30 years?


Edited by Futurist, 03 July 2013 - 01:40 AM.


#35
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
Nevertheless, I bet we'll see earth's first true MacDuff before 2050.

What's a MacDuff?



#36
Alric

Alric

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,087 posts

If you have an artificial egg from a man, and normal sperm from another man, then you could have a child who is biologically the child of two men with no woman involved at all. Females have XX chromosomes and men have XY chromosomes, so you could actually split the male chromosomes and put two together to have XX that is basically identical to a woman and have it in the egg. It is a little harder for woman, since woman don't have a Y.

This is what they are working right now today, so in 20-30 years, I would suspect that they can work it all out so that you can have a child from any combination of parents. They have even done some early work in creating artificial chromosomes as well. None of this stuff is approved to use on humans and I don't think anyone will try it on people for a while, but there is no reason to think any of this is impossible.



#37
Mickusey

Mickusey

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Hmm... I don't see much of a point, honestly. I mean, by the time this technology exists we will probably be able to switch genders on the fly almost instantaneously and create 100% synthetic human life in a lab. By then pregnancy will seem slow and painful.



#38
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
Hmm... I don't see much of a point, honestly. I mean, by the time this technology exists we will probably be able to switch genders on the fly almost instantaneously and create 100% synthetic human life in a lab. By then pregnancy will seem slow and painful.

And yet many/most women, even in the Western world, voluntarily become pregnant at least once in their lives, even though they can either adopt a needy child from a poorer country or use IVF and a surrogate.



#39
Mickusey

Mickusey

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
Hmm... I don't see much of a point, honestly. I mean, by the time this technology exists we will probably be able to switch genders on the fly almost instantaneously and create 100% synthetic human life in a lab. By then pregnancy will seem slow and painful.

And yet many/most women, even in the Western world, voluntarily become pregnant at least once in their lives, even though they can either adopt a needy child from a poorer country or use IVF and a surrogate.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely zero problems with it. I just wonder why you'd want to become pregnant, why anyone would really, with so much tech available. 


Edited by Mickusey, 03 July 2013 - 05:16 AM.


#40
Futurist

Futurist

    Aspiring cross-dresser

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,802 posts
  • LocationSouthern California, United States of America, Planet Earth
Hmm... I don't see much of a point, honestly. I mean, by the time this technology exists we will probably be able to switch genders on the fly almost instantaneously and create 100% synthetic human life in a lab. By then pregnancy will seem slow and painful.

And yet many/most women, even in the Western world, voluntarily become pregnant at least once in their lives, even though they can either adopt a needy child from a poorer country or use IVF and a surrogate.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely zero problems with it. I just wonder why you'd want to become pregnant, why anyone would really, with so much tech available. 

In order to fully experience it and everything which it entails.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users