43 replies to this topic

[truthiness]

Is America ready for an internet-based third party?

This group claims to have 1.6 million signatures (whatever that actually means...) and plan to forward candidates for the ballots in all 50 states.

They are aiming for the political center, but seem to be leaning left as far as I can tell (although, to be fair, these days it seems like to be "left" is everything on the rational side of believing in a 6000-year-old Earth full of oil that is totally impervious to man-made pollution).

Will they be a player, or a footnote? Could they be this year's Ralph Nader or Ross Perot, acting as a spoiler in this case to elect Obama's republican rival?

Or could they actually pull it off, and bust up this nation's long standing two-party system?

[jjf3]

Is America ready for an internet-based third party?

This group claims to have 1.6 million signatures (whatever that actually means...) and plan to forward candidates for the ballots in all 50 states.

They are aiming for the political center, but seem to be leaning left as far as I can tell (although, to be fair, these days it seems like to be "left" is everything on the rational side of believing in a 6000-year-old Earth full of oil that is totally impervious to man-made pollution).

Will they be a player, or a footnote? Could they be this year's Ralph Nader or Ross Perot, acting as a spoiler in this case to elect Obama's republican rival?

Or could they actually pull it off, and bust up this nation's long standing two-party system?

Do they have $50 million??? Obama plans to have a $1 Billion+ campaign budget. 50 million is what he has right now. IDK it may be a footnote today, but as computers do and will enter politics, they will be a very large stepping stone http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif They need massive advertising.

[Wesfky]

Nice ad mate. -1

[wjfox]

Nice ad mate.

-1

"Truthiness" was a regular on the previous forum. I don't think this is a spammer.

[Sorok]

Without a clear candidate's face to challenge either the republicans or the dems, there's no way this works. Why? Because in the US, the presidential election is much more of a popularity contest than anything else. This is reinforced by the fact that the 'sweetspot' of majority votes lies among independents, whose votes are more likely to be gained from an individual's stance on various issues as opposed to what exactly they represent. And to back up my point even further.... if it wasn't a popularity contest, Bill Clinton doesn't get elected in '92, Bush doesn't get elected in either '00 or '04. And nobody asks if Sarah Palin will ever run for president. Living in Canada (where we have a parliamentary system) it would have a far better chance whereas the vast majority of citizens vote either Liberal party or Conservative party, with a couple lesser groups sticking with either the Bloc Quebecois or the NDP.... and while a charismatic candidate can sometimes sway people to vote across party lines, most people tend to ignore the candidate and vote for their party. There are very few 'independents' to hustle votes from. All that aside....I love the idea of pushing issues before pushing faces. Here's hoping the internet helps create a political revolution in the US!

[Innsertnamehere]

NDP currently are the main opposition in canada, (came in second place in the elections)

[stevo]

i really hope it works because i'm tired of all the partisan bitching!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mic of orion]

Is America ready for an internet-based third party?

This group claims to have 1.6 million signatures (whatever that actually means...) and plan to forward candidates for the ballots in all 50 states.

They are aiming for the political center, but seem to be leaning left as far as I can tell (although, to be fair, these days it seems like to be "left" is everything on the rational side of believing in a 6000-year-old Earth full of oil that is totally impervious to man-made pollution).

Will they be a player, or a footnote? Could they be this year's Ralph Nader or Ross Perot, acting as a spoiler in this case to elect Obama's republican rival?

Or could they actually pull it off, and bust up this nation's long standing two-party system?

interesting stuff. wish them good luck in their endeavors, America needs more plural democracy with more than 2 political options, I'd like to see American politics transfigured with at least 4-5 major political parties.

[Dead Redshirt]

It could happen, but I'm not sure the US is ready for it. But the two-party system feels a little antiquated, where it was better suited when it was a smaller country with a smaller population and less candidates in the running. Times have changed. I've watched the American elections with frustration in realizing that some parties don't even get recognized properly. A multi-party system would allow more leeway and flexibility, and I dare say, debates would be more interesting.

[jjf3]

This election has such a wide variety of people, and I was watching I think CNN the other day and they were talking about how the republican party has changed and evolved throughout the years. It's almost like they don't know what they stand for exactly. There is such a great difference between all the presidential candidates. There's Perry (leans toward tea party although not officially a member) and Bachmann (tea party), Huntsman and Romney (Both of whom are more moderate), and then Ron Paul who is in a category all by himself. I think Herman Cain is one of the only republicans that I can associate with the old republican party, not too extreme. But I still like Huntsman a bit better. I think the Tea Party made a huge mistake by not forming their own Presidential Party way back when if first formed. They were highly considering it. They should separate themselves from the Republican Party. Because I am around a lot of Republicans and even most of them say the Tea Party is crazy and delusional!

[wjfox]

I am around a lot of Republicans and even most of them say the Tea Party is crazy and delusional!

Good, hopefully this will split the Republican party and ensure its defeat in 2012.

Republicans = evil, greedy, corporate fascist bastards who worship free markets and profits above all else, and only care about the rich, at the expense of practically all other considerations.

The Democrats aren't perfect, but at least they have some morals.

[jjf3]

Would it be better if you were all controlled by a government that didn't know what it was doing? I think your talking about politicians not Republicans. You misplaced some words there. The main idea of the Republicans is less government intrusions. Which I happen to agree with. I'm not fond of many of their ideals but this one I must agree with. Politicians = evil, greedy, corporate fascist bastards who worship the economy and profits above all else, and only care about the rich, at the expense of practically all other considerations. Also if some people want more than two political parties, how would destroying the Republican party help? That would just mean the Democrats would get what they wanted all the time with complete totalitarian gov't rule! Is that what you want? A return back to Medieval Europe?

[jjf3]

Just because Liberal morals and values are different than Conservative morals, doesn't mean they're absent or wrong. People aren't meant to think the same way, so different people will of course value different things. So quit your whining, the republicans will never disappear as long as a democrat says stuff like that about them.

[wjfox]

The main idea of the Republicans is less government intrusions.

Less government intrusions? Lol.

Like deciding what two consenting adults are allowed to do in their own homes, you mean?

Like deciding what a pregnant woman is allowed to do with her own body?

Like deciding whether two adults who love each other are allowed to marry, just because they're the same sex.

Like deregulating the environment, so corporate profits are put above peoples' health and well-being.

Like slashing healthcare, so its primary purpose is to boost corporate profits, rather than help the sick.

Like forcing Christianity on people and society, regardless of their beliefs, and ignoring the separation of church and state.

The Republicans are the most hypocritical party on earth when it comes to "government intrusions".

[jjf3]

Dems Favor Min wage, and high taxes Favor environmental laws but then go into countries to secure oil fields (repubs do this too) Favor a move towards a One World Totalitarian Government without freedom of speech, religion, or thought. Favor Massive Spending of money we don't have Favor Entitlement programs that are not needed or necessary Favor a low military budget so we can't afford to protect ourselves Favor illegal immigration and welfare, so they don't care if our border is protected (also falls into military budget)--"the more the merrier!" Favor Government laws telling us what to do, say, think, and how to behave. "Oh you can't think like that, you are a crazy extremist!" Favors legalization of all drugs-- more dependence Favor handing out paychecks to the poor on taxpayer dollars. Favor forcing Americans to buy Health Insurance when most cannot afford it or don't want it./ Giving Illegals free Health Care! Says it doesn't Favor Big Businesses as long as they obey the energy laws, then they can do w/e they want! Favors SAYING one thing, then doing something completely different or not doing it at all. Favors whining and complaining while caving to anybody who fights back! Favors the "common good" over individual success. Favors a Vulnerable state filled with Vulnerable and dependent people. Favor anybody who thinks like them Favor large government controlled businesses which makes it harder for competition to rise up. Favors crazy ideas like, "World Peace," and a, "Resource based economy" Where those are both theories and are almost impossible to achieve. Favors whatever the media as long as its not FOX news has to say! The Liberal Democrats are some of the most delusional people I have seen. They don't think for themselves, they are afraid to ask questions to their leaders. They have amazing creative ideas, but lack the economic knowledge and practical solutions on how to get their projects running smoothly doing EXACTLY what they said it would do! And that's my views on Democrats

[Craven]

I think you forgot to mention that lesser intrusion of goverment by republicans in your retort

[truthiness]

Dems Favor Min wage, and high taxes -as opposed to outright wage slavery and no middle class Favor environmental laws but then go into countries to secure oil fields (repubs do this too) -so point retracted... Favor a move towards a One World Totalitarian Government without freedom of speech, religion, or thought. -not really, but it sounds scary though - VOTE REPUBLICAN Favor Massive Spending of money we don't have -which is nothing at all like massive tax cuts while spending the same amount, or spending billions on two wars... nothing at all Favor Entitlement programs that are not needed or necessary -such as... universal healthcare? nah, we don't need that... what we need is more aircraft carriers! Favor a low military budget so we can't afford to protect ourselves -in case the entire rest of the world decides to team up on us, our budget might not match theirs! oh noes.... Favor illegal immigration and welfare, so they don't care if our border is protected (also falls into military budget)--"the more the merrier!" -as opposed to actively deporting 11 million people (the entire population of Ohio) Favor Government laws telling us what to do, say, think, and how to behave. "Oh you can't think like that, you are a crazy extremist!" -abortion, gay marriage, marijuana, prayer in schools, creationism in schools, patriot act Favors legalization of all drugs-- more dependence -as long as marijuana is "all drugs", and as opposed to a war on drugs that costs $15 billion a year Favor handing out paychecks to the poor on taxpayer dollars. -as opposed to just letting them starve - they probably deserve it anyway, poor bastards working in an outsourceable job - the nerve... Favor forcing Americans to buy Health Insurance when most cannot afford it or don't want it./ Giving Illegals free Health Care! -as opposed to the correct way of doing business, letting people get sicker and sicker until they are forced into a hospital that will charge the taxpayers anyway, probably even more money since people don't get treatment until they are next to death... America, fuck yeah Says it doesn't Favor Big Businesses as long as they obey the energy laws, then they can do w/e they want! -as opposed to just outright favoring big businesses, and clearing out any energy laws Favors SAYING one thing, then doing something completely different or not doing it at all. -such as saying you favor the sanctity of life, then support the death penalty Favors whining and complaining while caving to anybody who fights back! -as opposed to doing whatever the hell you want, despite the opposition - that's strong leadership Favors the "common good" over individual success. -outrageous! blasphemy! Favors a Vulnerable state filled with Vulnerable and dependent people. -as opposed to a plutocracy filled with poor people lorded over by a handful of superrich Favor anybody who thinks like them -anyone who thinks like this should be shot on sight! Favor large government controlled businesses which makes it harder for competition to rise up. -and especially harder for the massive private sector corporations to make obscene profits controlling access to a necessary good Favors crazy ideas like, "World Peace," and a, "Resource based economy" Where those are both theories and are almost impossible to achieve. -yeah, world peace... how the hell are we supposed to make money from that? Favors whatever the media as long as its not FOX news has to say! -as opposed to favoring only what fox news has to say Whew... that was fun...

[jjf3]

Couple things wrong with your post here: Wage salary does not exist in this country (no matter what you think) People get jobs because they WANT to make money. They want to work for a company or they want advance in their careers. This is not possible under wage slavery. Yes, they have to do this, but what's their alternative? You can't survive without working for or with someone! Hobbies won't make you that much money. We are the leading nation in war time advancements and technology (Most of which is and was developed for war) AKA the internet. So do you really want to cut the budget now? We need that money for research and development. Look up DARPA, they are responsible for about 90% of the world's technology today. Technology allowed us to win WWII and become one of the world's powers. I don't see why the left hates the military. We haven't deported 11 million people, that's how much illegals we have that we know about. Obama has deported 1 million people. But still people can easily just walk or climb into the US. Obama also supports the Patriot Act. Wake up call-- Creationism is not really taught, its a mixture between science and creationism and trying to figure out the forces that drove life to evolution. Something that science has yet to answer. Prayer is a form of meditation. Schools have always had prayer. I don't see a problem with it. 76% of Americans are Christians. So I don't see how there is forcing of Christianity where many already choose it. Freedom of Religion. You are against the war on drugs but are for drugs--haha funny. The War on drugs IS about all drugs coming in from Mexico because of our unprotected borders!!!! Do you really want the drug cartels here? Do you know how hard it is to get off of welfare? To get a house, car, and respectable career? Most don't. Talk about slave wage there! The last thing these people want to do is worry about another forced bill upon themselves eg. Health Care. Because now they are required to buy Health Insurance. The US was built from these large businesses that you hate so much. And most are sleeping with the government. It is true that the top 5% control 95% of the world's wealth. CEOs tend to be powerful. and want to profit. Its the way of the world works and you can't change that. Well, the government can and will try to...

[truthiness]

You are correct in stating that wage slavery does not exist in this country. Yet. I would define wage slavery as a condition wherein a job is necessary in order to exist as at least a potentially functioning member of a society. Take away welfare, unemployment benefits, healthcare, and public education and we're there. Under those circumstances, employers have the freedom to pay employees a wage that just barely allows the employee to have access to food, water, shelter, and sufficient health care to stay alive, and workers have the freedom to spend their measly paychecks as they wish or find a new job, if they can. A libertarian paradise.

I wouldn't say that I "hate" the military, and I do appreciate that there is an unfortunate need for it, but I don't see why they are allocated such a tremendous amount of our annual budget... I mean...

come on...

Again, you're quite right. We haven't deported 11 million illegal immigrants. Yet. Illegal immigration is a far more complex and nuanced issue than I'm prepared to debate at the moment. It basically touches on every hot topic in American politics today, from welfare to education to health care to security to racism to morality and on and on and on... Suffice it to say, I don't think blanket deportation is the answer. Some combination of better border enforcement (on both sides) coupled with easier immigration standards and amnesty programs for those already here might be a good start.

We also are not teaching creationism (or it's more PC modern incarnation, intelligent design) in schools. Yet. Prayer is also disallowed in public schools in the US. For now. Of course kids can do what kids want, and if a kid wants to say grace privately before lunch hour, he can knock himself out, but a public school in the US cannot lead a prayer. My own public high school got around this through group prayers for a Christian club around the flag outside before school started. That group could not have led the school in a prayer before class or at a pep rally or any other time school was in session. Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion, and having religious services within government institutions is a breach of that freedom.

I am against the war on drugs, yes. Nothing would break the back of these cartels faster than legalization. If drugs were legal for recreational use, there might be an increase in number of addicts, but those addicts would have available routes open to treatment, leading to less deaths and a more productive society generally. I strongly suspect that even if crack and heroin became legal, most people would choose not to use them, opting for less addictive ways to get a casual high. I understand that my position here is pretty far to the left, and I'd be quite satisfied with simply legalizing marijuana (which is itself not a position that most democrats are even willing to take)

I do happen to know what it is like to be on welfare and to get off of it. I'm glad it was there. It was a demeaning process that I wouldn't wish anyone to have to take. You have to justify yourself through an interview process every year, and the people who do the interviewing don't have much sympathy for a 20-something college graduate with a wife and kids and $80,000 in student loans. During a period when I was out of work my family had food and enough for rent. Not a whole lot else though.

The nice thing about democracies is that you can change the way the system works. It isn't so easy with a two-party system though.

[jjf3]

Some of the programs get shrunk down yes, but eliminating entire programs may leave the US vulnerable to attack. The Biggest spending comes from the DOD which is research and development. China is catching up to us in military technology and can easily hack our websites/servers. We need to prepare ourselves. We need protection. We need technology and we can't rely on China anymore because they are preparing for...something!

http://www.msnbc.msn...ghbors-worried/

And do you really think that if drugs become legal, the drug addicts will willingly go to drug rehab? Why go to drug rehab if drug use is legal? There would be no reason to do so. Durgs = productive society? Maybe a highly creative society but not productive. Why do you think businesses have drug tests? Most drug addicts are not even aware that they are addicted and hurting their bodies. That's why it's called an addiction and the first step of recovery is acceptance of that addiction.

If drugs were legal College would become a population control center. Those who manage to escape the experimentation that goes on there would probably be emotionally and mentally impacted by the use of drug use that occurred at their school!