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Automated Food Production

Vertical farming Invitro meat Automation limitless food

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#1
Squillimy

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Hey guys I was just thinking, you know for the last few hundred maybe even thousands of years we've been making food generally the same way. Although we have made the process easier and more efficient with technology, more or less we have gotten our crops and meat from farming them with human labor using vast amounts of land. We even still practice some extremely old ways of getting foods such as fishing using boats and nets, which seems almost primitive in our new age of technology.

 

I realized that (well atleast I think) we're about to enter a new age of food production. We're about to switch from acres of land for farming to vertical farms in cities that can possibly even be automated. As well as large labs in cities that produce invitro meat that can even be purer than natural meat. Even things such as fish and seafood can start to be grown in large vertical sea farms. These technologies will breed a new era of food production. When you think about it, it's really futuristic and almost science-fiction like!

 

Also, do you think there's a possibility that food quality could skyrocket? Think about it, with automated food there is no more "bad meat, good meat; bad crops, old crops" All foods are 100% pure. This could lead to fast food places that usually serve low grade meat serving food that we consider 5 star restaurant quality. Think about it; today we regularly eat like the kings did of old days. Imagine a future world where the average person eats like today's billionaires who have their own professional chef crew, but on a daily basis!!! People in the future would taste our old foods and be disgusted. Gourmet foods of the future would mean creating foods that taste even better than 100% pure and fresh foods. In this scenario, just imagine what these gourmet foods would taste like...

 

When do you think this'll be in effect? Vertical farming, Invitro meat, fish farms to start appearing in cities? How long will it take for these to become mainstream and outdo with farmers all together; even possibly becoming fully automated!? Also, i'd like to know what you guys think about the previous food quality paragraph. 


Edited by Squillimy, 21 August 2013 - 07:13 PM.

What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#2
Raklian

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Until the molecular assembler makes its debut, urban/vertical farming is the logical next step. The Earth's climate has become variable, so one way to protect crops is to grow them inside, away from the elements that may harm them.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#3
Squillimy

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True. But i'm wondering: what are they waiting for!? I wanna see the first vertical farm pop up in a city. It'd be a cool feature and in part with the food it'd produce, the tourism it'd bring would likely result in it paying for itself in a matter of years or less!


What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#4
Frizz

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True. But i'm wondering: what are they waiting for!? I wanna see the first vertical farm pop up in a city. It'd be a cool feature and in part with the food it'd produce, the tourism it'd bring would likely result in it paying for itself in a matter of years or less!

Who would want to tour a vertical farm? "vertical farms" wont be like skyscrapers as they are depicted in artisitc concepts, they would probably be like warehouses on the fringe of cities.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#5
FutureOfToday

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At the moment, Singapore is the only country in the world with a commerical vertical farm. But it's not just a 'warehouse', it is a very nice structure.

#6
Frizz

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At the moment, Singapore is the only country in the world with a commerical vertical farm. But it's not just a 'warehouse', it is a very nice structure.

I would think that it would be more economical to have indoor farms over a few levels on acres of land on fringes of cities like modern shopping malls than vertical farms over dozens of floors in city centres, i understand the vertical farm appeal but i think these type of indoor farms will resemble large warehouses/shopping centres than skyscrapers.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#7
Squillimy

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At the moment, Singapore is the only country in the world with a commerical vertical farm. But it's not just a 'warehouse', it is a very nice structure.

I would think that it would be more economical to have indoor farms over a few levels on acres of land on fringes of cities like modern shopping malls than vertical farms over dozens of floors in city centres, i understand the vertical farm appeal but i think these type of indoor farms will resemble large warehouses/shopping centres than skyscrapers.

 

How many buildings do you know cover several acres and are indoor? At this point, basically only very expensive roofed colliseums cover such land apart from extremely large factories. And even at that, colliseums are just a little bigger than an acre, yet some are just as expensive to build as a skyscraper (and it's because of their bowl like shape that they're allowed to be so large anyway)... It's easier to make a building .2 acres and 50 stories high (therefore making it ~10 acres of farm land), than to build a 10 acre indoor farm right next to a city. And why use additional land by farming horizontally anyway?

 

As for the "warehouse" statement; brewery companies regularly make a good amount of income from allowing people to tour their factories, as well as other manufacturing locales. Why wouldn't vertical farms be the same?

 

Also there are certain benefits to producing food by vertical farming. Such as the impending +3 billion people that are going to be on this planet in ~50 years, with 80% of suitable land for growing crops already in use.  The locality of the food which will save you much more money than you think (no tractors, plows, shipping). Especially in the extremely large urban areas such as NYC where people could buy their food locally without a third party intervention, making the food cheaper and saving money. Also these factories would produce electricity (methane generation). Yet these are only a few of the benefits.


Edited by Squillimy, 22 August 2013 - 04:41 PM.

What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#8
Frizz

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At the moment, Singapore is the only country in the world with a commerical vertical farm. But it's not just a 'warehouse', it is a very nice structure.

I would think that it would be more economical to have indoor farms over a few levels on acres of land on fringes of cities like modern shopping malls than vertical farms over dozens of floors in city centres, i understand the vertical farm appeal but i think these type of indoor farms will resemble large warehouses/shopping centres than skyscrapers.

 how many buildings do you know cover several acres and are indoor? And Even if you do this, making such a building 2 stories will be practically impossible, or insanely uneconomic... It's easier to make a building .1 acres and 50 stories high (therefore making it ~5 acres of farm land), than to build a 5 acre indoor farm. And why use additional land by farming horizontally? You take for granted how valuable land is. Also there are certain benefits to producing food by vertical farming. Such as the impending +3 billion people that are going to be on this planet in ~50 years, with 80% of suitable land for growing crops already in use.  The locality of the food which will save you much more money than you think (no tractors, plows, shipping). Especially in the extremely large urban areas such as NYC where people could buy their food locally without a third party intervention, making the food cheaper and saving money.

And how expensive will land be in city centres? Btw shopping centres cover several acres of land and are several floors and this style of indoor farming is far more economical than building a 50 floor skyscraper in manhattan, it would still be local if these indoor farms were built on the metropolition outskirts.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#9
Frizz

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At the moment, Singapore is the only country in the world with a commerical vertical farm. But it's not just a 'warehouse', it is a very nice structure.

I would think that it would be more economical to have indoor farms over a few levels on acres of land on fringes of cities like modern shopping malls than vertical farms over dozens of floors in city centres, i understand the vertical farm appeal but i think these type of indoor farms will resemble large warehouses/shopping centres than skyscrapers.

 how many buildings do you know cover several acres and are indoor?

every shopping centre in the developed world.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#10
Frizz

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To not realize that there are tens of thousands of buildings covering several acres and multible floors is strange, and to argue that its more economical and energy efficient to build 50 floor skyscrapers in prime manhattan than to build shopping mall-size warehouse-style indoor farms on cheap land on city fringes is again strange, i feel you must be confused or misinformed.

Edited by Frizz, 22 August 2013 - 05:21 PM.

“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#11
Squillimy

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And how expensive will land be in city centres? Btw shopping centres cover several acres of land and are several floors and this style of indoor farming is far more economical than building a 50 floor skyscraper in manhattan, it would still be local if these indoor farms were built on the metropolition outskirts.

 

Damnit, I didn't finish my post before you responded to it. Anyway shopping centres in cities typically do not cover nearly as much as ones in suburbian areas, yet regardless they are very expensive to build as well. Also you're acting as though 10 acres of land on the outskirts of a city isn't extremely expensive too. And even so, skyscrapers hold much more square footage than large shopping mall or factory, especially if you increase the square footage on the base of the skyscraper.

 

As for the locality, it is no more local than farms already are. But I say this because shop keepers could reduce the prices they pay in order to get the food that they sell (no shipping fees or taxes to bring product into the city). Also in such a scenario delivery people would be required to drive into the city and drop off the requested crops at every vendor in a large city, which would still be required in a vertical farm placed in a city to an extent, but would turn out far less expensive. You focused on how much it costs to get a vertical farm off the ground but not so much on how much money it'd save as opposed to a horizontal farm, and also the different logistics that would go into each style of farming. Still there's the unanswered question of why use additional land when we could use less.


Edited by Squillimy, 22 August 2013 - 05:26 PM.

What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#12
Frizz

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Ten acres of land on the fringe of a metropolis is not "extremely expensive", its actually rather cheap. Your arguement that skyscrapers have more square metres than shopping centres is wrong, a 10 acre double floor indoor farm on the edge of a city would have around 80,000 square metres of floor space, on the other hand a 50 floor skyscraper in the city centre covering say a generous 1000 square metres amounts to only 50,000 square metres, yet it would be extremely expensive to build on prime city land vs suburban or former industrial land.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#13
Squillimy

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If that were simply the case then everything in NYC and other large cities would be made locally and shipped to the city, and there would be no manufacturing, factories or plants - apart from power plants - inside the city boundaries.

 

There's cheap areas in big cities too. A vertical farm would not be needed to be placed right next to, say, central park.

 

Also, a big thing about vertical farms is that they could be multipurpose. It does not only need to be a farm. In fact, new buildings being built could all have a section designated to farming


Edited by Squillimy, 22 August 2013 - 11:56 PM.

What becomes of man when the things that man can create are greater than man itself?


#14
Frizz

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If that were simply the case then everything in NYC and other large cities would be made locally and shipped to the city, and there would be no manufacturing, factories or plants - apart from power plants - inside the city boundaries. There's cheap areas in big cities too. A vertical farm would not be needed to be placed right next to, say, central park. Also, a big thing about vertical farms is that they could be multipurpose. It does not only need to be a farm. In fact, new buildings being built could all have a section designated to farming
you dont appear to have grasped what i have been saying, and i wont continue to repeat myself.

Edited by Frizz, 23 August 2013 - 02:23 AM.

“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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#15
FutureOfToday

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I think that by 2150, fishing, hunting and rural farming will be things of the past. All food will be produced in cities, it's just far more convenient to do it this way.

#16
Ewan

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Just to address a few more points

 

City land is too expensive in the vast majority of countries, even on the outskirts. I do not see vertical farming becoming anything more than a fad for quite a while. The price of transportation is almost insignificant in comparison to the finished product. Why would you use city land that could be used for housing on food? If you're going to produce goods inside you can do it anywhere, so why not do it on say, a desert where you can't grow anything else....

 

They already do...

 

Posted Image

 

Why would you bother producing locally at ridiculous prices when you can buy cheap land that no one else wants.

 

Also regarding your good/bad crops point. You're dealing with living organisms here, they're not all the same. Some plants produce bad fruit, there is just no way of getting around that currently. It has nothing to do with automation at all, I mean almost all farming is done with machines now anyway. 

 

Likely in the future transportation and storage technologies will get even better. Food will be delivered to your door, after all most of the carbon footprint of food is due to transportation from supermarket to your home anyway. Producing locally isn't going to save the environment or your ££ if you have to travel further to get it. 


Edited by Ewan, 23 August 2013 - 08:35 PM.


#17
qfeys

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Sorry for my ignorance, but could anybody explain how the crops get light on the inside?



#18
Frizz

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Sorry for my ignorance, but could anybody explain how the crops get light on the inside?

Magic.
“Give me time and I’ll give you a revolution.”
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Vertical farming, Invitro meat, Automation, limitless food

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