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When will 100% perfect health be possible?


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Poll: 100% Perfect Health (33 member(s) have cast votes)

When will 100% perfect health be possible?

  1. Voted Before 2500 (23 votes [69.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.70%

  2. 2500 - 2600 (4 votes [12.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.12%

  3. 2600 - 2700 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 2700 - 2800 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 2800 - 2900 (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  6. 2900 - 3000 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 3000 - 3500 (3 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  8. 3500 - 4000 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. 4000 - 5000 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. After 5000 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  11. Never (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

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#21
Casey

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it tottaly sucks...here we are living in Alice Wonderland.

 

Maybe, but even if we accept that notion for the sake of argument, I think your absurdly negative predictions and assessment of the current situation (mainstream medical technology is not the same as it was during the 1970s, for one thing, and you honestly think that no significant medical advancement will happen until the next century?) are also nothing more than fiction. I honestly believe that 20 or 30 years from now, you will be eating your words.


Edited by Casey, 04 September 2013 - 05:48 PM.


#22
wjfox

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These poll options are a little ridiculous. I'd be very surprised if a single disease remains uncured by 2200. We'll understand the body inside and out by then - down to the smallest quantum unit - and most people will be non-biological anyway.

 

I mean, Christ, we've already mapped the genomes of various cancers. We're already saving peoples' lives using 3D printers to replicate bones and tissues. Pretty much every aspect of medicine can become an information technology and subject to exponential growth.

 

I'm rather bewildered by some of the comments in this thread, which assume that progress will slow to a crawl, when the exact opposite is clearly happening.



#23
wjfox

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take a trip to the hospital you will notice that our medical treatement are pretty much the same of the late 70s and medical progress news will happen only in the next century..

 

Sorry, but that's complete and utter nonsense.

 

https://en.wikipedia...2011_in_science

https://en.wikipedia...2012_in_science

https://en.wikipedia...2013_in_science



#24
FutureOfToday

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I agree with Italian Ufo. I can't remember there being any huge medical breakthroughs at all so far in the 21st century, and we're almost 14 years into it. The suggestion that EVERYTHING will be curable by 2200 is as plausible as Disney suggesting that time travel will be possible in 2037 in Meet the Robinsons.

#25
Casey

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Bioprinting and various gene therapies are enough to make the playing field noticeably different from what it was just 5-10 years ago, and at any rate comparing 2000 to 2013 isn't particularly relevant as a basis to compare 2013 against 2200. I'd rather not get too deep into this argument, though, since apparently the "Medical science moves slow and will always move slow" crowd is composed almost purely of stubborn hardheads who accuse those that are more positive than themselves as being stuck in a Disney fantasy world, completely ignoring the wealth of resources and arguments their opponents dig up because they apparently hold more faith in their unsubstantiated gut feelings than any other force in the world, and would rather blindly accuse those who disagree with them of being Pollyannas than take the effort to analyze or refute anything they say.

 

 

edit: To clarify, since Lily's reading this thread, I'm not talking about her. But yeah, the "medical science progresses slowly" group should be able to provide better arguments than "Naw, you're bullshitting lol" in response to arguments from the other camp.


Edited by Casey, 04 September 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#26
Lily

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I think of it as a defense mechanism. People who have health concerns and wish for these techniques and new applications in medicine to become reality with all their heart might be afraid to get their hopes up - I know that's what happens with me. Somehow, I have never wanted to accept that what I grew up with as the all-around medical standard will stay the same. I have always believed we will improve, that cures must be possible with science, but then, progress is slow. Before you get something like stem cell therapy or stuff like that at your doctor's practice, it will have to pass trials and be recognized officially as a treatment option, which at that particular moment, will  most likely be so incredibly expensive most folks won't get any out of it.

 

If you follow the medical reports closely, you'll notice a pattern and get tired of that rather quickly. "Limbs regrown!" it may say, and then the article goes on that some day far off it might be possible. Or, if the article's more optimistic, it'll say  human trials are supposed to take place in or within the next 10 years. Two years later, you read exactly the same thing and it looks like no progress is made when, in fact, a lot has happened, I'll admit. My dream is that one day we'll be able to replace damaged parts of our body with either enhanced synthetics or regenerated biological tissue - and science and some breakthroughs have led me to believe this isn't a pipe-dream or completely delusional - it's in the realm of possibility I think. Still, until I will be able to get such a treatment done, I better start living in the real world where you're screwed if you lose a limb or have hearing problems or whatever....

If you are waiting (really, anxiously waiting because you are in pain or have other problems) for a specific treatment technique to emerge and become standard practice, your view on this matter might look bleaker than yours. (@wjfox, Casey)


"All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

There's definitely truth in that...


#27
Casey

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Oh, I completely understand and agree (I edited my post right before you posted this, in case you missed it). I myself have some brain damage from that stroke I mentioned during one of my first posts here, and there's not much more in the world I want to see than for my sister's Lupus to be cured. Still, we shouldn't allow our frustration to make us throw logic completely out the window. Your take on the situation is a rational one; saying that no noteworthy medical progress will happen until the 22nd century... not so much.

 

I don't mean to cause offense to Italian or FoT (I admittedly am probably being a jerk), as I like them both quite a lot. I just think they're acting kind of bullheaded in regards to this one subject.


Edited by Casey, 04 September 2013 - 07:10 PM.


#28
CamGoldenGun

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I said never. From a biological perspective, if we start going to new worlds there will be new diseases and even current ones will mutate to crazy ugly ones. With nanotechnology, sure we can keep a state of "is this the state it should be?" But then you're reliant on the technology itself so you'd be susceptible for other "diseases" like coding issues, etc. I think it will always be a case where we'll be improving but we'll never master.

That's what I consider perfect health

So what about a scenario where there's a really mutated strain of something and the nanobots in our body react to it but it reproduces just as fast or faster than the nanobots and your kidney's can't catch up with the amount of waste both are making? Or someone finds a way to pre-occupy the nanobots and infect you with a fast-acting strain of something else. I'm saying while normal day-to-day stuff will be a piece of cake now but when we explore the universe and start dealing with the unknown (both technologically and biologically) there will be times where we are not in "perfect health"



#29
Raklian

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^ We will always be at war, constantly with coming up with ways to outsmart, out-do or destroy the other. This is inherent in an universe ruled by entropy.

 

 

I think the battles will be a lot more vicious in the future. Think we're having it hard at trying to find a cure for cancer or HIV? Well, try waiting for the next century. We know nothing! :)


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#30
RayMC

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I said never. From a biological perspective, if we start going to new worlds there will be new diseases and even current ones will mutate to crazy ugly ones. With nanotechnology, sure we can keep a state of "is this the state it should be?" But then you're reliant on the technology itself so you'd be susceptible for other "diseases" like coding issues, etc. I think it will always be a case where we'll be improving but we'll never master.

That's what I consider perfect health

So what about a scenario where there's a really mutated strain of something and the nanobots in our body react to it but it reproduces just as fast or faster than the nanobots and your kidney's can't catch up with the amount of waste both are making? Or someone finds a way to pre-occupy the nanobots and infect you with a fast-acting strain of something else. I'm saying while normal day-to-day stuff will be a piece of cake now but when we explore the universe and start dealing with the unknown (both technologically and biologically) there will be times where we are not in "perfect health"

 

Both of these scenarios are impossible.

 

1-I don't think that one is stupid enough to go to unknown, inhospitable planets without wearing any protection whatsoever, especially if he is purely biological. If I were to go to an unknown planet which might host dangerous bacterias (and i didn't upgrade my body), I would definitely wear a space suit first (which protects you from all kind of diseases).

 

2-Regarding the second scenario, I believe that nanobots will act by their own and they wont communicate with each other. Hacking them or occupying them is therefore impossible, in this case. While someone might occupy one or two nanobots(max), there is no way someone can occupy them all.


Edited by RayMC, 05 September 2013 - 04:29 PM.

“Wʜᴀᴛ ɪs ɴᴏᴡ ᴘʀᴏᴠᴇᴅ, ᴡᴀs ᴏɴᴄᴇ ᴏɴʟʏ ɪᴍᴀɢɪɴᴇᴅ.” - Wɪʟʟɪᴀᴍ Bʟᴀᴋᴇ


#31
Italian Ufo

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it tottaly sucks...here we are living in Alice Wonderland.

 

Maybe, but even if we accept that notion for the sake of argument, I think your absurdly negative predictions and assessment of the current situation (mainstream medical technology is not the same as it was during the 1970s, for one thing, and you honestly think that no significant medical advancement will happen until the next century?) are also nothing more than fiction. I honestly believe that 20 or 30 years from now, you will be eating your words.

 

Have you took a trip to the hospital? not that I wish it to you...but go to any public hospital for first aid and see how you will be treated and what they can offer. in 20-30 years it is too late for me to enjoy life the way I want and I doubt there will be more progress then there is now.  I forcast more stem cells to be used, more precise x-rays if we are lucky enough, maybe some alert device inside or out of the body that gives you alert, Leonardo robots and more 3D images and devices but even in 20 years the situation in treating diseases will be only a bit better then now. you have to wait next century to start to see some consistent progress. by the way singularity won't make speed progress for at least a while.



#32
Italian Ufo

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These poll options are a little ridiculous. I'd be very surprised if a single disease remains uncured by 2200. We'll understand the body inside and out by then - down to the smallest quantum unit - and most people will be non-biological anyway.

 

I mean, Christ, we've already mapped the genomes of various cancers. We're already saving peoples' lives using 3D printers to replicate bones and tissues. Pretty much every aspect of medicine can become an information technology and subject to exponential growth.

 

I'm rather bewildered by some of the comments in this thread, which assume that progress will slow to a crawl, when the exact opposite is clearly happening.

 

Yeah right... and we don't know how to put a patella back in  the grow of the knee, or if a muscles is always contracted we don't know how to ease it, and if you have spinal disc injury all you can do is a massage to alleviate the symptoms, and if a therapy works on patient it doesn't work on, and if you go to  a doctor in 2013 almost 14 he tells you that you have to learn to leave with pain and limited functions.... where are we living? I think most of people here don't go to hospitals or medical visits enough. then we read this glorious news I get daily where a scientist printed a lung...great...will it be functional? how long will last? can it be implanted and for how long? it needs 20 years to approve these things and we may be too old for this.

also what about other health care problems? I have been having orthopaedic problems for very long, by now they promised to us sufferers to cure them....even 3 years ago....and look we are now! same shit! and it will be for long.



#33
Italian Ufo

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take a trip to the hospital you will notice that our medical treatement are pretty much the same of the late 70s and medical progress news will happen only in the next century..

 

Sorry, but that's complete and utter nonsense.

 

https://en.wikipedia...2011_in_science

https://en.wikipedia...2012_in_science

https://en.wikipedia...2013_in_science

 

things that are not in practice. hospitals are dark places..full of long lines with lots of old people and doctors being superficial to you...give a random diagnosis and therapy.. they don't take care of your concerns so much. reading medical forums around the world it all seems the same anywhere.

oh and if you complain about something that they don't find important they just tell you to go see a psychologist or an occupation therapist....what a wonderful health care system we have



#34
Italian Ufo

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it would be better to have a new medical cures every months except new smart phones...I think the waiting time for medical applications could be cut and speed, but government need to make more investiments and we "voters" need to make pressure..but we are sleepy...

 

I fight aging...fighting aging you get pretty much every human disease we should work on that...I put the SENS foundation link to collect contribution from this site but no one really gave a dam. it is frustrating.



#35
Raklian

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^ The thing with being a futurist is that we have to temper our expectations a bit lower or otherwise we get very disappointed, as in Italian's case. We all do get caught up with excitement that comes with studying and reading about technological breakthroughs and projected ones.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#36
Raklian

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I put the SENS foundation link to collect contribution from this site but no one really gave a dam. it is frustrating.

 

Now you truly understand how Aubrey de Grey feels.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#37
Lily

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^ The thing with being a futurist is that we have to temper our expectations a bit lower or otherwise we get very disappointed, as in Italian's case. We all do get caught up with excitement that comes with studying and reading about technological breakthroughs and projected ones.

 

This is so true it hurts. Many people are blessedly ignorant when it comes to health issues. Have trouble hearing? Well, it happens when you get older, right? Need a dental implant because your teeth are ruined? Okay... there's no alternative to it, so let's do it.

Meanwhile, as futurists, we believe that scientific progress will take us to the level where we'll be able to regenerate hair cells and regrow a whole tooth if needed etc. - so, we get frustrated when it's still so far out of reach. What can you do about that dilemma? Stop reading about emerging technologies in the medical field?

 

I guess what makes it hard for me is that I don't believe this is science fiction, but really possible. Often enough, I am told I am crazy and stupid to be so naive and childish to believe that things like that might be possible. I just find it too hard to believe we won't get there at some point in the future because there's no magic behind diseases or dying or death. They are all natural processes which can be understood sceintifically and, hopefully, counteracted by using technological and scentific means. There's no need to settle and accept disease and discomfrot on a physical level, I'm sure. We just need to keep working on it, studying - we know so much more right now than ever, things people in the past would have never imagined! We can't stop now only because it seems such a huge feat to tackle: illness, disease and, ultimately, death.


"All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

There's definitely truth in that...


#38
zEVerzan

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As long as we are biological, we are imperfect.


I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
Attention is currency in the "free marketplace of ideas".
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#39
wjfox

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^ We will always be at war, constantly with coming up with ways to outsmart, out-do or destroy the other. This is inherent in an universe ruled by entropy.

 

 

I think the battles will be a lot more vicious in the future. Think we're having it hard at trying to find a cure for cancer or HIV? Well, try waiting for the next century. We know nothing! :)

 

Really?

 

http://www.singulari...ts/page331.html



#40
Zeitgeist123

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am definitely with wjfox on this one. once we fully understand our bodily parts and function in the atomic level, we will conquer disease and aging. 2300 is already way too long,


“Philosophy is a pretty toy if one indulges in it with moderation at the right time of life. But if one pursues it further than one should, it is absolute ruin." - Callicles to Socrates





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