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Immortality


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Poll: Immortality and Mars Colony (89 member(s) have cast votes)

When will Humans reach Immortality

  1. 2015 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2025 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 2035 (5 votes [5.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.62%

  4. 2045 (8 votes [8.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.99%

  5. 2055 (20 votes [22.47%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.47%

  6. 2075 (15 votes [16.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.85%

  7. 2100 (17 votes [19.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.10%

  8. 2200 (7 votes [7.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.87%

  9. Several Centuries From now (7 votes [7.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.87%

  10. Several dozen Centuries From now (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  11. Hundreds of Milenia (1 votes [1.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.12%

  12. Voted Never (9 votes [10.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.11%

When will Man make a colony on mars

  1. in 20 years (16 votes [17.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.98%

  2. in 30 years (14 votes [15.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.73%

  3. Voted in 50 years (24 votes [26.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.97%

  4. in a century (26 votes [29.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.21%

  5. in several centuries (8 votes [8.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.99%

  6. in a milenia (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 10,000+ years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Never (1 votes [1.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.12%

When will we stop all diseases

  1. in another 5 years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. in another 10 years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. in 20 yerars (8 votes [8.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.99%

  4. in 50 years (28 votes [31.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.46%

  5. in 100 years (21 votes [23.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.60%

  6. in 500 years (8 votes [8.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.99%

  7. in 1000 years (1 votes [1.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.12%

  8. 1000+ years (5 votes [5.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.62%

  9. Voted never (18 votes [20.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.22%

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#1
someone

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I am new here, and this is my first topic, hope it's good:

We may reach immortality once all the diseases are cured and aging is stopped (or even reversed)

Pros
More workers (workers can't age, and when it reverses, people that once retired can now work again)(Although they may not like the work, it's certainly better than worrying when he/she will die)
Happier People (Now people go around thinking "I'll never die"!!!)
Healthier People (people now have no way of death except murder)
Increased lifespan (Maybe the average Joe might live a couple Milena from almost a century.)

Cons
More Suicide (People today cannot handle their 50 year work time, how can they handle 2,000 years)
Less money for government (although funds on medical research is gone, people still have to spend money on stem cells, antibiotics, and nanobots to repair the cells)
Overpopulation (With people 3,00 years old not dying, it may be cause population to stack)

#2
Keitaro2011

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I am new here, and this is my first topic, hope it's good:

We may reach immortality once all the diseases are cured and aging is stopped (or even reversed)

Pros
More workers (workers can't age, and when it reverses, people that once retired can now work again)(Although they may not like the work, it's certainly better than worrying when he/she will die)
Happier People (Now people go around thinking "I'll never die"!!!)
Healthier People (people now have no way of death except murder)
Increased lifespan (Maybe the average Joe might live a couple Milena from almost a century.)

Cons
More Suicide (People today cannot handle their 50 year work time, how can they handle 2,000 years)
Less money for government (although funds on medical research is gone, people still have to spend money on stem cells, antibiotics, and nanobots to repair the cells)
Overpopulation (With people 3,00 years old not dying, it may be cause population to stack)


I think these problems could be overcome by replacing work with AI, and mind uploading.
It's apparent to me that a lot of people seem to want to prove why a technology is not possible, rather than think of ingenious ways to make something possible. It's my conviction that when someone says something is "impossible," what they really mean is "our current level of science cannot explain this, and I don’t have the motivation to explore beyond its boundaries." -Richard Obousy

#3
someone

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I agree that it can be solved with A.I's, but we may not know WHEN we reach immortality, the AI's, in the near future, they will be just as smart as we will, and in the far future, they will be way smarter, and who knows if this is in the near future of the far future. These problems may actually come in effect, of course, with today's technology, we don't even have a AI, actually we do, but not as nearly as smart as us.

#4
Shimmy

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Which form of immortality will come first? Finding cures for all biological disease and reversing ageing or just replacing all the biological parts with technology? Because of the nature of how virus' and bacteria evolve to become more effective I would argue that curing all diseases is impossible. The same bacteria and organisms that cause disease are also essential to keeping us alive, they are individual life forms and will constantly adapt and change to any techniques we use to control them, as can be seen with the constantly decreasing effectiveness of antibiotics. As long as we have biological parts there will always be new diseases and virus'. Anyway, my conclusion is the only way to true immortality is to replace all living parts of us with technology which would by current definitions mean we weren't alive anyway, so immortality would become irrelevant.

#5
OrbitalResonance

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Then there might be viruses of the technological kind.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#6
someone

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If we do replace all our parts, we'll be pretty much a cyborg. I guess that's the only way to immortality, except for that, there is no way to cure diseases. Yeah, that may be the case

#7
OrbitalResonance

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Posthuman

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#8
Caiman

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If we consider 'immortality' to be longevity and persistence of the mind, rather than the body, then yes I believe that we'll achieve that at some point in the not so distant future, though probably not in the lifetime of anyone around now (hopefully I'm wrong on that front...). I still think everyone will 'die', and that the 'mind' which survives having been 'uploaded' or 'transferred' is a copy that for all intents and purposes is the person, but the still... a copy. Perhaps though, research into preventing/reversing aging and other lifetime extension technologies will indeed lead to breakthroughs in allowing people to live for much longer in their actual bodies, rather than dying and having some digital copy which thinks it is them living forever in successive cloned bodies or a virtual post-singularity world.

~Jon


#9
Shimmy

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We can't say for sure that making a digital copy means "you" won't be in control of it and it will just think it is you. It's a interesting topic. As far as i'm aware there doesn't seem to be any specific consciousness part of the brain embedded within it, but rather simply the nature of how the brain works creates an illusion of control so we think of ourselves as being in the driving seat. Biologically its just lots of cells working together which in no way appears to imply a seperate decision making entity. So anyway, if our "consciousness" is just a weird result of these biological interactions then it seems reasonable to assume a digital copy would have the exact same kind of projection. And since this would be indistinguishable form the original you could argue that it doesn't just think it's you but it really is "you" (in every sense). So if you made a thousand copies of yourself, you would be in control of all of them, but whilst controlling each individual one, the part of you controlling that one would be unaware of the existence of the others. I suppose you could compare this to the quantum concept that each time a wavefunction collapses it can be seen as splitting the universe in two.

#10
mic of orion

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Mars colonization - in a century or even more, scientific base and research stations as early as 2040s, Immortality - by 2050 i think we should have what could be considered some form of immortality, at least healing ageing will be possible as early as 2025, revering ageing by 2050 at the latest, living forever is one so desired by 2070 at the latest 2080. forgot what the third thing was :D
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

#11
classical piano guy

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We can't say for sure that making a digital copy means "you" won't be in control of it and it will just think it is you. It's a interesting topic. As far as i'm aware there doesn't seem to be any specific consciousness part of the brain embedded within it, but rather simply the nature of how the brain works creates an illusion of control so we think of ourselves as being in the driving seat. Biologically its just lots of cells working together which in no way appears to imply a seperate decision making entity.
So anyway, if our "consciousness" is just a weird result of these biological interactions then it seems reasonable to assume a digital copy would have the exact same kind of projection. And since this would be indistinguishable form the original you could argue that it doesn't just think it's you but it really is "you" (in every sense). So if you made a thousand copies of yourself, you would be in control of all of them, but whilst controlling each individual one, the part of you controlling that one would be unaware of the existence of the others. I suppose you could compare this to the quantum concept that each time a wavefunction collapses it can be seen as splitting the universe in two.


It would indeed "have the exact same kind of projection"; however, it still would not be your particular set of atoms and biological networks (though it would think it is). The copy would still occupy different space and function independently of the original. "You" would have no more "control" over it than you would have over an identical twin -- or even a genetic clone.

The wave function analogy doesn't really apply; however, even if it did, bear in mind that "you" still experience your own "consciousness" in only one of the infinite number of universes.

I believe we had a similar discussion in a mind uploading topic on the old forum.

With regards to the OP:
In light of current exponential trends in the fields of stem cells, nanotechnology, and telomeres, the biological aging process is set to be "defeated" in no more than 40 years, barring global catastrophe (as usual).

Mars will most likely develop a small colony in 50-60 years, with a full terraforming taking place mid 22nd century.

All current diseases (physical, neurological, and otherwise) should be curable within 80-90 years, though new ones could spontaneously form at pretty much any time.

#12
Shimmy

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If you're saying a persons consciousness is fixed to a particular set of atoms and position in space I don't really see why that would be the case. Every time you move your atoms are changing their position, and various atoms and cells within the brain are constantly changing and being replaced. If you replace a small part of somebodies brain with a replacement part the vast majority of people would agree it was still them, so where's the limit where doing too much surgery stops them being the same person. I would argue that the concept of "you" is simply the neurone networks in your brain and the sum of what we call memories and nothing else. The fact that a copy would have the exact same networks and memories I would think makes it 100% "you", the space and time in which the copy exists are completely irrelevant. Anyway, I guess you say you've discussed this on the old forum, which I unfortunately never visited.

#13
classical piano guy

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If you're saying a persons consciousness is fixed to a particular set of atoms and position in space I don't really see why that would be the case. Every time you move your atoms are changing their position, and various atoms and cells within the brain are constantly changing and being replaced. If you replace a small part of somebodies brain with a replacement part the vast majority of people would agree it was still them, so where's the limit where doing too much surgery stops them being the same person. I would argue that the concept of "you" is simply the neurone networks in your brain and the sum of what we call memories and nothing else. The fact that a copy would have the exact same networks and memories I would think makes it 100% "you", the space and time in which the copy exists are completely irrelevant. Anyway, I guess you say you've discussed this on the old forum, which I unfortunately never visited.


It is indeed linked to one particular set of atoms arranged in a certain way at a fixed point in time; I don't see how you can dispute that. Nothing about copying yourself will allow you to take part in the independent thought processes of the copy. While it's quite true that your being is nothing more than the sum total of your genes and environment (or genes and "memories" -- which, as a result of environment, is an acceptable alternative), that doesn't imply that two identical "you's" are actually one single "you."

Although I suppose it will take human cloning to definitively close this issue, the fact remains that monozygotic twins (with the exact same DNA) are two autonomous individuals not actually "controlled" by one consciousness.

#14
someone

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Mars colonization - in a century or even more, scientific base and research stations as early as 2040s,

Immortality - by 2050 i think we should have what could be considered some form of immortality, at least healing ageing will be possible as early as 2025, revering ageing by 2050 at the latest, living forever is one so desired by 2070 at the latest 2080.

forgot what the third thing was :D

Yeah, but if we do learn how to become immortal, it won't be revealed very soon, this is because that there are shortages of food, power, water and much much more.

#15
Prolite

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Yeah, but if we do learn how to become immortal, it won't be revealed very soon, this is because that there are shortages of food, power, water and much much more.


Highly unlikely to occur. Any time there's a new breakthrough in longevity studies done on mice, it's on the news like the next day. Want to know why? MONEY. Money rules the world my friend, and always will.
I'm a business man, that's all you need to know about me.

#16
Mr. Carmichael

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The government would be in no position to stop longevity treatment nor for the short term would they want to: People like Aubrey De Gray speak of ageing escape velocity. You take a pill which lets you live an extra 20 years by the time those twenty years are up there is a hundred year pill and before that is up something else or immortality will be amongst us. The treatments also will freeze you at the age you are with a small reversal of ageing. So yes in some respects going from nothing to immortality now may be out of our lifetimes but life extention treatments may keep us alive to survive to the next treatment and the next one after that as I said escape velocity. By then if medicine hasn't achieved it cybernetics will. Another more simpler way of looking at it is for every year that passes by medical science extends life a certain amount, I think it's two months at the moment 9which also is accelerating quite quickly now) . So if you can make it to the point where for every year which passes medical science extends life by that year you have an effective immortality of you can avoid an accident befalling you. Some futurists believe that many of the baby boomers alive today may have the chance to live forever so I'm pretty optimistic. Chance are any treatment like this I may get around the age of 55. Why would the government not want another person able bodied to take care of themselves than another rotting old person sucking the time out of numerous facilities. I also agree on the money angle, industry conquers everything and whoever creates life extension will be creating the new oil. The problem with mind uploading as the concept stands now is you would be creating a digital copy of yourself, independent of you. So all you've done is made a copy of yourself. The mortal version of you is still there unfortunately. Mind uploading could only work if it was more like the matrix, e.g. you could leave the confines of your human brain and project that like an out of body experience and send it into the collective internet or whatever it was so you have squeezed the 'you' out of your body then it would work as it is still you and not just a copy. Chances are cybernetics will achieve this but the problem again is computers back everything up. So you want to upload your self into this future network and your cybernetic body before ot does it makes a backup...just i case. Then it send you and there's now two of you. Which is the real you? Does one then get wiped so effectively one version of me gets murdered (this harkens back to the concepts of teleportation; copy disintegration, reintegration). Of course we're looking at it from an early 21st century viewpoint computers quantum computers and new AI's my function differently or have ways of achieving this without copying splitting or destroying everything so your intelligence is treated more like a parcel leaving your body and bound for another destination. I love the concept of transhumanism wether or not we hit immortality transhumanism is coming life will be extended and the concepts defining it will have to be redefined.

#17
jjf3

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Mars colonization - in a century or even more, scientific base and research stations as early as 2040s,

Immortality - by 2050 i think we should have what could be considered some form of immortality, at least healing ageing will be possible as early as 2025, revering ageing by 2050 at the latest, living forever is one so desired by 2070 at the latest 2080.


I agree but i think we will see the immortality network, if you, will go online sometime before 2030. It may not reach it's full potential due to controversies, laws, funding, security issues and anything else that modern technological breakthroughs take on until much later. Once the new network jumps over these hurdles it will be smooth sailing for a while and the creators of the technology will have the power to make it better for the next couple of decades. I think that the Network will reach full body maker status and memory dumping/uploading by 2080.

Now if you are talking about immortality without any usage of technology, as in a complete consciousness shift and we become an enlightened species that could take as long as a thousand years and possibly never.

I like the scenario in the film the sixth day. You would get your brain scanned, DNA sample taken, Eyes scanned, and Fingerprints, and now probably your social networking information. You can upload all this onto the net. In the beginning it will be something of a safe-guard body restart system. Meaning life extension but not immortality and complete copy-maker yet.

What if the new system, could essentially erase your thoughts and memories of say you getting shot. high tech hospitals of the future could repair the damage in seconds done to the body and you would never know you would have died.

We don't know enough about the brain yet so I don't know if the network could be that simple.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#18
Mr. Carmichael

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I often puzzle over the concepts of immortality especially memory deletion and mind uploading. Mind uploading means copying you digitally but if that happens you are still there with a new version of you suddenly doing it's own things. You're still there. Then if you conceive this as a means of backing you up in some way again I see issues in relation to memory deletion, your personality is formed from an amalgamation of your experiences and memories delete and important one and are you still you? Same way for mind uploading a few memories added or taken away doesn't that branch you off into a completely different person, is the original you consigned to oblivion and a new version of you takes on the mantle? I think when these technologies appear that have the ability to upload remove memories or backup the mind there will be some tough questions to address. I would like to know how immortality will effect the everyman. Let's say it was available now, cheap at the price, how would people view death? Most of my friends say they wouldn't want to as they would get bored but they are clearly thinking of either: A: living to a more and more advanced age of decrepitude which is absurd...who would want that to be an immortal geriatric? B: Having immortality but in this world we live in now...forever as they feel they would get bored 'Short term maybe but even with a normal length of lifespan at the end of that technological progress will have created some formidable and mind blowing ways of keeping the mind occupied and entertained and seeing the wold in general will be much cheaper as well as the infinite scope of virtual worlds. I've always had the idea that immortality or at the very least radical life extension (1000 years) would create so many benefits in a psychological manner. 1: People would chill the F*** out! There is no longer the need to rush from A-B panic about all the things you haven't done yet or the friends you haven't kept in touch with. As a result a lot of Anxiety and Depression would disappear without the medication. I have mild versions of these now and I know full well if we had a thousand year life spans I would be unconcerned about my current dilemmas. 2: No more mid life crises, see above 3: No bitterness about what you don't have or haven't been to, you would get there eventually. 4: The wisdom and peace of mind a couple of centuries of life experience would offer someone. 5: The prospect of death would be something to be welcomed instead of feared, should technology and everything else developed to keep your interest fail to do so and you finally get tired of life you would easily embrace death as a form of release and it would no longer be a terrifying absolute but something to look forwards to should stagnation set in. 6: You would have the time to spend with your family kids and you would want to capture those precious moments of childhood before they too become an eternal adult.

#19
Digital Phoenix

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I think once people realize immortality is possible in their lifetime, there will be a huge push for it. I'm very curious to see a timeline of the pricing. How long will it take before the average joe can get his or her hands on it?

#20
Keitaro2011

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One obvious issue with this is how we would deal with overpopulation. If mind uploading were to be invented, then that probably could easily be solved. However, I wonder if people would take too kindly to being told they can't have kids.
It's apparent to me that a lot of people seem to want to prove why a technology is not possible, rather than think of ingenious ways to make something possible. It's my conviction that when someone says something is "impossible," what they really mean is "our current level of science cannot explain this, and I don’t have the motivation to explore beyond its boundaries." -Richard Obousy




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