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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'


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#21
Raklian

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History will never forget about the man that turned water into wine.

 

Future descendents, being more scientific-minded than we are now, will debunk this statement without a second's notice.

 

 

So, they'll know about him too then. Statement supported!

 

 

That specific statement didn't say who the man is.

 

Debunked!


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#22
zEVerzan

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Wait, who was this guy who turned water into wine? Sounds really neat, if a bit implausible. He must know how to party. What's his name? Can I join his fan club?


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#23
caltrek

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I am really enjoying this thread.  You see, I live in vineyard country. Our soils are so good that you just add water and, presto, you've got wine.  Of course you do have to ferment the stuff to give it that just right taste.  So do I get the prize for being the next savior?

 

How about an invite to your next party?

 

Oh well, at least don't accuse me of not trying to be friendly.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#24
Yuli Ban

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History will never forget about the man that turned water into wine.

 

Future descendents, being more scientific-minded than we are now, will debunk this statement without a second's notice.

 

While using nanofabricators to turn water into wine?


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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#25
Raklian

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^ During the ancient times, are you sure? :)


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#26
zEVerzan

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Maybe he was a time-traveler who found himself in a precarious situation: pretend to be magic and gather a following, or risk tearing apart the space-time continuum through inaction.


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I always imagined the future as a time of more reason, empathy, and peace, not less. It's time for a change.
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#27
kjaggard

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There are three parts to a wine that are concerned here. Water, alcohol, and dregs. Distill the alcohol out of the watery wine they drank in that age, and dry out the dregs.You'll have a test tube or alcohol and an olive sized lump. Get a pitcher of warm water drop the lump in it and stir in the test tube. tada a water to wine kit.

 

This is one way to pull this off in fact. There are ways to do this with rigged devises and illusions that are easy as can be.

 

but that's hardly the point of the christian faith. so many people get hung up on the myth and magic stories that they miss the very real history of the time and the efforts to revolutionise the culture and people of the region. The attempt to unify and teach forgiveness and kinship amongst people who fueded and waged wars where 'slaughter every last man woman and child and then salt the earth so that nothing may grow here ever again' was how you dealt with other city states you had disagreements.


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#28
rtardx

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Flying Pigs bathe in  holy crap.



#29
caltrek

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^ Are you sure you don't mean flying spaghetti monsters bathe in wine?


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#30
Zeitgeist123

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i think the historical christ did exist and he's probably a rabbi or a charming zealot with revolutionary ideas who gave hope to israelites from the tyranny of rome, but he's probably nowhere similar with how modern christians think he was. it may be possible that the roman empire invented jesus christ from this belief system base on the real christ then embellish it with political propaganda after it became institutionalized. a belief system that had strong and very passionate followers in the empire a few centuries later. it is also because the brand of religion is favorable to the powers that be (closed-belief system, you will burn in hell if you dont convert, us vs them type, monotheistic, social system that can control people). i think an egyptian pharaoh named akhenaten attempted to use this style of governance and social control, but failed.

 

he's just like santa claus, the character originated from a real person named st. nicholas.. btw, im an atheist. can be a militant one if not in the mood to deal with BS.


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#31
caltrek

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I go to church.  I do not take communion. I do not believe in the divinity of Christ. I do believe that there is much to value in his teachings.

 

The Bible is full of stories. In my not-so-humble opinion these stories are often taken far too literally. This is the case even if the authors hoped that they would be taken literally. Turning water into wine is a case in point, as is the concept that wine is the blood of Christ. Mind you, conservative Christians do not agree with that idea. They want to believe in these concepts in the most literal way possible. 

 

I am not sure how the story of turning water into wine got started. I don't mean by this that I don't understand that it is a story in the Bible. What I mean is that I am not sure how that story made it into the Bible. Multiple explanations are plausible. I wouldn't even rule out ancient aliens or time travel. I would tend to go with explanations that are more prosiac. This could include mass hypnosis, or simply the willingness of believers to not object to the obvious fact that their wine is in fact water. A way of being gracious to their host and teacher. Also, a way of proclaimng mind over matter.

 

If I chose to label something as wine, who is to say that I am wrong?

 

If I say that the sun travels along a certain path in the sky, who is to say that idea is wrong?

 

It is rather a trick of language. The sun does indeed seem to travel a certain path through the sky. So there is a certain poetic truth to saying so. That this perception is the result of the rotation of the earth may be a scientifically correct statement, but that does not, or at least should not, take away from the poetic truth regarding the "path" that it takes.

 

That poetic truth can facilitate how we think about the sun in our everyday lives. Architects can plan the orientation of the homes and buildings that they design by taking into account the "path" of the sun. We can all speak about the sun rising in the east and setting in the west and use this idea to navigate in the wilderness. Much of language is that way.  A way of understanding our world so that we may act upon our "knowledge".  We really don't need to be killing each other over the confusion that this acting upon partial knowledge some times causes.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#32
Noctis Futuris

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[color=rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);] Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."[/color]

 

 

This is actually a misinterpretation of the Bible. Jesus did not teach people to be pacifist and humble, especially towards authority.
Turning the other cheek actually means to retaliate in a smart way.

 

It also says that Jesus came to earth not to spread love and unification, but division amongst the people. To separate the believers from the unfaithful and evildoers.


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#33
KomissarBojantchev

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If  Christianity was devised  by roman aristocrats as a pacification propaganda tool then why did they start murdering Christians? It makes no sense. And its not true that romans were much concerned about jewish rebellion, they easily and brutally crushed every single jewish uprising with little effort.


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#34
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Jesus is also a figure in Islam. That would be pretty shaking for some Muslims to find out that it had characters borrowed from Christianity.

What on Earth are you talking about? Every Muslim knows their roots in Judaism and Christianity.


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#35
Futurist

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Jesus is also a figure in Islam. That would be pretty shaking for some Muslims to find out that it had characters borrowed from Christianity.

What on Earth are you talking about? Every Muslim knows their roots in Judaism and Christianity.

I think that he meant to say that Muslims would be extremely angry that one of the main figures in their religion could be made-up.



#36
caltrek

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Jesus is also a figure in Islam. That would be pretty shaking for some Muslims to find out that it had characters borrowed from Christianity.

What on Earth are you talking about? Every Muslim knows their roots in Judaism and Christianity.

I think that he meant to say that Muslims would be extremely angry that one of the main figures in their religion could be made-up.

 

The Quran challanges the divinity of Christ. It doest accept that Jesus was a prophet of God. It also criticises Christians for accepting a Holy Testament that has errors in it. 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#37
zEVerzan

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Because the Quran is obviously way more infallible than the Bible. Uh-huh, sure.

 

I'd say they're all on about the same wavelength of "infallibility."


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#38
Yuli Ban

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If  Christianity was devised  by roman aristocrats as a pacification propaganda tool then why did they start murdering Christians? It makes no sense. And its not true that romans were much concerned about jewish rebellion, they easily and brutally crushed every single jewish uprising with little effort.

Perhaps, in some way we today don't understand, that's exactly why? Perhaps to root out Jews to make sure no uprising took on any serious form. After all, Spartacus's uprising was no more than a century before, so I can imagine some aristos saying

"Hmm... let's just be safe. Make sure no more of these kinds of subverters arise. Create a false leader, convince them that they're saved so that they'll become more open targets, give the revolutionaries a proper name, and then... crush them." Though crucifixion was a known punishment back then, perhaps Jesus's crucifixion was meant to be an analogy to the mass crucifixion of Spartacus's followers?

 

Perhaps the story of Jesus was supposed to be a Roman tale against raising dissent and Jews/Christians decided to turn it against them, eventually fusing it with other great stories such as Mithra? Perhaps the story of Jesus was the first ever Internet meme [minus the Internet]! Perhaps historians don't quite get it the way it was meant to be told, kinda like how some people think that Brutus was supposed to be a villain in Julius Caesar but, because of cultural dissonance (i.e. kings=divine right to democracy=freedom), we perceive him as a hero.

 

 

Or maybe Mr. Jesus developed schizophrenia or was schizotypal or developed some sort of Charles Manson-like ability to sway people, and following his death... well, actually, following his death not all that much actually happened until a bit of time later. But the rest is literally history.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#39
tw88

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The idea of Romans creating a religion to counter act the Jewish religion and then persecute the religion they created is absurd enough to have its own episode on Ancient Aliens. There is plenty of evidence that Christianity was molded and shaped as it grew in popularity to be more palatable to the pagan demographic, particularly by Emperor Constantine. But the idea that the Romans created the very thing they fought for centuries to suppress is a little hookie.
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#40
Italian Ufo

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We have several proves that Jesus existed as a person. He appears on a Roman census, Tacitus talks about him as well. Then if he was the son of God can be debated but I think he really existed.






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