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First Contact

alien contact first contact

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#21
TreeHandThing

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So why would they be looking? I can think of 3 primary reasons for them to look. Firstly, they are enlightened creatures looking to expand their knowledge of the universe, and are looking for other life. In which case they are likely to be peaceful, and would be a benefit to us (hopefully they'd quash religion at least). The second option is that they are looking to conquer, but that then leads to why? Why come across the deeps of space to attack a race that has barely made it into orbit? Either this race would need to be ultra-aggressive bordering on genocidal psychosis, or they know something that we don't about us and for some reason fear us.

So that leaves option 3, colonisation. This for me is the most likely scenario, that the race is looking for places to settle upon, ones that already contain life. Whether this is because their home has been destroyed / rendered uninhabitable, or whether they are an expansionist race, the fact is that they would arrive, likely with superior technology (although maybe not in all areas) and find us here. So that begs the question, what do they do next? How desperate are they to find somewhere to live? And could we stop them if they decided that force was the only option to them?


You think that colonization is the most likely scenario?

1: Earth is too small for any alien race to colonize. I think that within thousands of years of breeding ( for species that use sexual reproduction ) or multiplying ( asexual species ), there will be nonillions of them. Earth can only comfortably fit about 4.5 billion humans. Instead of thinking about aliens colonizing planets or moons, think about quadrillions of floating cities ( each the size of a red giant star ) floating in trillions of nebulas; or maybe even gigantic ringworlds surrounding every star in the galaxy.

2: Earth likely is no match for the alien's home planet or moon. Other habitable planets and moons are likely radically different from Earth. As a cross-example, Europa is 100% habitable. Certain deep sea animals could live in Europa's depths.

But would we colonize Europa? No, it is too radically different from Earth, we would get lethal doses of radiation.

#22
GNR Rvolution

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So why would they be looking? I can think of 3 primary reasons for them to look. Firstly, they are enlightened creatures looking to expand their knowledge of the universe, and are looking for other life. In which case they are likely to be peaceful, and would be a benefit to us (hopefully they'd quash religion at least). The second option is that they are looking to conquer, but that then leads to why? Why come across the deeps of space to attack a race that has barely made it into orbit? Either this race would need to be ultra-aggressive bordering on genocidal psychosis, or they know something that we don't about us and for some reason fear us.

So that leaves option 3, colonisation. This for me is the most likely scenario, that the race is looking for places to settle upon, ones that already contain life. Whether this is because their home has been destroyed / rendered uninhabitable, or whether they are an expansionist race, the fact is that they would arrive, likely with superior technology (although maybe not in all areas) and find us here. So that begs the question, what do they do next? How desperate are they to find somewhere to live? And could we stop them if they decided that force was the only option to them?


You think that colonization is the most likely scenario?

1: Earth is too small for any alien race to colonize. I think that within thousands of years of breeding ( for species that use sexual reproduction ) or multiplying ( asexual species ), there will be nonillions of them. Earth can only comfortably fit about 4.5 billion humans. Instead of thinking about aliens colonizing planets or moons, think about quadrillions of floating cities ( each the size of a red giant star ) floating in trillions of nebulas; or maybe even gigantic ringworlds surrounding every star in the galaxy.

2: Earth likely is no match for the alien's home planet or moon. Other habitable planets and moons are likely radically different from Earth. As a cross-example, Europa is 100% habitable. Certain deep sea animals could live in Europa's depths.

But would we colonize Europa? No, it is too radically different from Earth, we would get lethal doses of radiation.


Well I certainly think it's more likely than them turning up to destroy us just for the hell of it ;)

But it really depends on how life has developed elsewhere in the universe. If the carbon-based lifeform is the only way for complex life to develop then we are sitting on a reasonably plump little planet that would suit aliens that have developed along similar evolutionary paths. But yeah, if they haven't developed along that path, then they probably wouldn't come here because they would have any reason to. It also depends on whether they can transform the environment of a planet to suit their needs, again if they can then there would be no need to colonise planets like ours, so again we probably wouldn't get any visitors. But it seems more prudent for them to use something that is already there than build giant cities in space?
All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

#23
TreeHandThing

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I agree with most, except radio wavelenghts - we use those for a reason - they are relatively quiet, so if aliens do use radio to communicate (quite concievable) it would be on similar frequencies as we.


Aliens use radio to communicate? You say that aliens " are way more advanced in every field " than us, and you think that aliens tens of thousands of years more advanced than us will use a 19th century technology? Yeah, they probably don't use something like x-rays to communicate, they likely use some other technology, that we don't even have any clue about.

For example, human civilization will outphase the wheel within 100 years, replacing them with room teperature superconductors.

#24
OrbitalResonance

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The greatest reason to visit? Observation of a fairly interesting scientific target.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#25
GNR Rvolution

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I agree with most, except radio wavelenghts - we use those for a reason - they are relatively quiet, so if aliens do use radio to communicate (quite concievable) it would be on similar frequencies as we.


Aliens use radio to communicate? You say that aliens " are way more advanced in every field " than us, and you think that aliens tens of thousands of years more advanced than us will use a 19th century technology? Yeah, they probably don't use something like x-rays to communicate, they likely use some other technology, that we don't even have any clue about.

For example, human civilization will outphase the wheel within 100 years, replacing them with room teperature superconductors.


Well they may not use radio waves to communicate, but if they are that advanced they probably have devices that can monitor across the full wavelength spectrum so would pick up all transmissions ;)
All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

#26
Craven

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I agree with most, except radio wavelenghts - we use those for a reason - they are relatively quiet, so if aliens do use radio to communicate (quite concievable) it would be on similar frequencies as we.


Aliens use radio to communicate? You say that aliens " are way more advanced in every field " than us, and you think that aliens tens of thousands of years more advanced than us will use a 19th century technology? Yeah, they probably don't use something like x-rays to communicate, they likely use some other technology, that we don't even have any clue about.

For example, human civilization will outphase the wheel within 100 years, replacing them with room teperature superconductors.


I only said that IF they use radio, they'd use same frequencies as we do. Of course they could harness quantum entanglement process and no longer use it.
But still radio will be efficient, cheap, and travel at lightspeed, so I can imagine advanced alien race using it even after reaching type I. But who knows.
After all turbines are around since what? XIX century? Even nuclear power plants use them.

I wouldn't count on outphasing the wheel withing 100 years. Not only we don't have room temperature superconductors, it would be stupid to use them for such trivial thing as replacing wheel.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

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#27
Shimmy

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agreed, the wheel will exist in some form or another into the distant future. Why would anyone replace something so simple that does certain jobs so perfectly with something far more complicated and expensive?

#28
TreeHandThing

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I only said that IF they use radio, they'd use same frequencies as we do. Of course they could harness quantum entanglement process and no longer use it.
But still radio will be efficient, cheap, and travel at lightspeed, so I can imagine advanced alien race using it even after reaching type I. But who knows.
After all turbines are around since what? XIX century? Even nuclear power plants use them.

I wouldn't count on outphasing the wheel withing 100 years. Not only we don't have room temperature superconductors, it would be stupid to use them for such trivial thing as replacing wheel.


Are you an idiot? Most of the energy used in cars is used for overcoming friction from the road. Using room-temperature superconductors, you overcome ground friction, and in principle, using a magnetised car floating over a superconducting street, ou can coast from New York City to San Francisco hardly using any fuel .Room temperature superconductors in roads will be the holy grail of science, save energy and money, and dare I say, become the greatest discovery man has ever made.

Learn your facts. That also goes to that idiot " Shimmy " who has no idea how to use the shift button on his computer.

#29
Craven

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OK, so here's suggestion: - get some manners, - talk to any engineer about all problems and cost related to your holy grail, - then come back here.
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"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#30
Shimmy

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wow, anyone who resorts to using "grammar" insults to try and win a science argument has already admitted defeat. in fact i'm writing in lower case permanently now just for you. and anyone who recognises the importance and incredible versatility of wheels is an idiot? well i guess you're right, you do have an iq of 164 after all. and i didn't start watching theoretical physics documentaries until i was at least 8.

#31
OrbitalResonance

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shimmy, get an avatar, you look drab otherwise..

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#32
Prolite

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One last thing, the fact that we haven't had first contact yet (well, not publically anyway), does not mean that there is nothing out there. We have been around for only a fragment of history, and have only been broadcasting for a very little time. It won't be until we really get out there amongst the stars that I think we will make first contact. It's like sitting at home and waiting for Mrs Right to walk up to your day and knocking on your door, in ain't gonna happen bud.


lol I can understand that part about Mrs Right. She always seems to be outside the property line, if you know what I mean. :D
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#33
TreeHandThing

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OK, so here's suggestion:
- get some manners,
- talk to any engineer about all problems and cost related to your holy grail,
- then come back here.


- Ok, sorry that I was a bit rude
- There are problems and cost with every single innovation, the internet, wireless energy, the television and nanotechnology. But people push for them anyway.

#34
TreeHandThing

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wow, anyone who resorts to using "grammar" insults to try and win a science argument has already admitted defeat. in fact i'm writing in lower case permanently now just for you. and anyone who recognises the importance and incredible versatility of wheels is an idiot? well i guess you're right, you do have an iq of 164 after all. and i didn't start watching theoretical physics documentaries until i was at least 8.


Yes, the wheel is versatile and important, and one of the greatest inventions of all time, but it is energy hungry as it needs to overcome friction. And no, people who recognise this aren't idiots, people who state that superconductors < wheels are. I already stated how much the world would benefit from room temperature superconductors.

And no, I did not use a grammar insult to try to win a science argument, I used it to try to get you to capitalize your sentences, but what you are doing now is much funnier. Keep it up.

#35
Craven

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There are over 8 million miles of roads in US alone. Room temperature superconductors are holy grail of materials science. It would be miraculous for medical equipement, computers, maglev transport. However it will never make any sense to this technology in cars, that use roads, but can drive offroad, that need good grip. It would be batshit expensive, unpractical and limiting. There is no comparsion with internet, wireless energy, TV or technology. Those are things we need, that make sense, and are worth the cost.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#36
GNR Rvolution

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I'm inclined to agree with Craven on this one, the cost of laying down room temperature superconductors on every road would be astronomical by today's methods. And wouldn't you like, have to lay it down all at the same time? Otherwise what the hell would you do when the superconductor highway ran out and you were back to regular tarmac? You'd need some kind of hybrid vehicle that works on both initially maybe? What I would say though is that it may be possible that there will be a revolution in the manufacturing industry that would overhaul the way that things are done. Nanotechnology, the supposed root of all innovation in the future, may complete alter the way things are constructed, but that's a huge leap of faith to put on such an early tech.
All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

#37
TreeHandThing

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I'm inclined to agree with Craven on this one, the cost of laying down room temperature superconductors on every road would be astronomical by today's methods. And wouldn't you like, have to lay it down all at the same time? Otherwise what the hell would you do when the superconductor highway ran out and you were back to regular tarmac? You'd need some kind of hybrid vehicle that works on both initially maybe?


That sounds like a 7th grade answer. Once we find what a room temperature superconductor is, we will be able to produce it in bulk, like we can with steel today.

#38
TreeHandThing

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There are over 8 million miles of roads in US alone. Room temperature superconductors are holy grail of materials science. It would be miraculous for medical equipement, computers, maglev transport. However it will never make any sense to this technology in cars, that use roads, but can drive offroad, that need good grip. It would be batshit expensive, unpractical and limiting.

There is no comparsion with internet, wireless energy, TV or technology. Those are things we need, that make sense, and are worth the cost.


I already described the importance and versatility of room temperature superconductors, even though you just seem to be ignoring me and covering your ears. You are acting like a theist or a climate change denier.

Are you telling me that superconductors don't make sense, and aren't worth the cost? Go ahead and spew whatever nonsense you want. I don't care.

#39
Shimmy

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Do you have the ability to reply to anyone's comment without insulting then? Are you an idiot? That also goes to that idiot " Shimmy " That sounds like a 7th grade answer You are acting like a theist or a climate change denier Go ahead and spew whatever nonsense you want You really need to learn to argue your case with reason instead. Might also be in your interest to stop thinking you're massively more intelligent than everyone else you talk to.

#40
Craven

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I already described the importance and versatility of room temperature superconductors, even though you just seem to be ignoring me and covering your ears. You are acting like a theist or a climate change denier.

Are you telling me that superconductors don't make sense, and aren't worth the cost? Go ahead and spew whatever nonsense you want. I don't care.


I see you're back to insults, also you started twisting my words. But you said that superconductors will outphase whell, and that's what I objected to. I didn't say superconductors don't make sense. I said that outphasing wheel with superconductors makes none.

So once again few suggestions:
- get a cold shower
- learn to read other people's posts
- remember what nonsens you spew yourself
- come back here
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."





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