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What is wrong with divorcing reality?


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#1
La Bodysnatcher

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I always hear "if you like virtual reality too much, you won't want to experience real life anymore" and my response has become a sardonic "Well what's wrong with that?"

If VR gives you more satisfaction than real life, and you have the choice of returning to real life but you're not forced to, wouldn't forcing someone to experience real life then become a form of torture just as much as forcing someone to experience VR would be to someone who doesn't want to?


When you say "this is overrated" do you mean "I think this sucks?"

When you say "the majority hate it" do you mean "I hate it?"


#2
Raklian

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Yeah, people who say that are merely expressing opinions based on limited experience.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#3
WithoutCoincidence

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Nothing's wrong with it innately.


The universe has gone from unimaginable, featureless heat to complexity and it will return in time to unimaginable, featureless cold.

-Chris Impey, How It Ends


#4
Cosmic Cat

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I would stick with reality because in VR I would become too bored. Its like playing a game and you find out the cheats codes, you never experience the game the same. The only way you can do something is to make goals for yourself. I know this because I have the PC version of Skyrim. I think the same thing can go with VR. It doesn't have the forced rules and obstacles reality offers us. Its how we made it through billions of years of evolution. I really want to try out VR but I won't dedicate my life in there. I would get the reason why the severely physically handicapped would dedicate their lives in there. If i didn't have the luck of a healthy body all my opinions will change about VR. Sometimes there are obstacles that reality makes too hard.

#5
Cosmic Cat

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I'm talking about god like VR where anything is possible btw. Not simulation-like VR with restrictions.

#6
Cosmic Cat

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I'm talking about god like VR where anything is possible btw. Not simulation-like VR with restrictions.

 

Edit (August 2014): My first double post ohuhuhu 



#7
FutureOfToday

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I think it's only healthy to spend some time in the real world as well. However you decide to look at it, virtual reality is not real, and you shouldn't waste all your time in a virtual environment when there is an environment outside that's not only "more realistic", but genuine as well.

#8
Yuli Ban

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Nothing; mainstream culture in both the East and West; North and South, all places from the rising of the Sun to the setting of the moon value the actual and genuine over the artificial. Since we have never experienced VR in its actualized, matured form, we have nothing else to go on except pessimistic cyberpunk fiction detailing how it would be a digital hell. 

Even the very terms "real" vs. "artificial" carry connotations; the former, positive, and the latter, negative.


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#9
StanleyAlexander

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^^^ Truth.  We have no idea what VR at its full potential will be like.  Eventually, it may be worse to divorce yourself from the virtual world than from the actual one.


Humanity's destiny is infinity

#10
GenX

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There's nothing inherantly wrong with it, but it would be like spending your life watching TV.  Society would consider you a lazy bum becase you're not working and supporting yourself and / or your family.  However, if you have enough money to support yourself, then why not?  For example, let's say that the age reversal drugs we are working on don't pan out and when I'm 65 years old and retired my body breaks down the same way that an average 65 year old does today.  Let's say I have testicular cancer and lupus and arthritis and whatever else.  However, my mind is fine, and VR is now indistinguishable from real life.  I have my retirement checks from my 401K to live on, so if real life is a living hell for me, and I can afford to, then why wouldn't I want to spend most of my time in the VR world??? 


The only thing we ever want is more


#11
Raklian

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Those of you who think spending time in VR 24/7 (or at least 12/7) is a waste of time and detrimental to your quality of life - mark my words, you will eat crow!

 

You know what, when VR becomes so immersive, so realistic you can't tell the difference between "reality" and VR, I'll have you eat a real, live crow in it. Literally!!!  :)


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#12
José Andrade

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I always laugh at people that say that spending too much time in VR will be bad because it's not real. Well, define real, the more scientists discover about science the more they say we are in a simulation already, so...

 

I want to see those people in the future, including a friend of mine. When they have let's say 8 hours of free time a day and they like some game in VR if they will spend that time in reality instead in a place that makes theme extremly happy just because "it's more correct/real".

 

It's like forcing yourself nowadays to play football, without liking it much, instead playing that computer game that you love because "it's more real"...


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#13
Cosmic Cat

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I always laugh at people that say that spending too much time in VR will be bad because it's not real. Well, define real, the more scientists discover about science the more they say we are in a simulation already, so... I want to see those people in the future, including a friend of mine. When they have let's say 8 hours of free time a day and they like some game in VR if they will spend that time in reality instead in a place that makes theme extremly happy just because "it's more correct/real". It's like forcing yourself nowadays to play football, without liking it much, instead playing that computer game that you love because "it's more real"...

that's the problem. You'll always feel disconnected from the real world. The world that made VR and the world that gave birth to us through evolution (and your mom). I would never stay happy in VR, I get why a lot of people would love VR but just the thought of living away from reality bothers me. You have to get back there. You have to pay back what society has given you. You also can't question reality because you don't actually transfering your concioussness over to VR your just tricking your brain. Living off of VR is just unnatural in many ways because your brain is being tricked to perceive an alternate reality instead of the real reality we all know and most love today. But this is just my opinion on how I see VR.

#14
José Andrade

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I don't see a problem. Why should i feel desconected from reality? As long as i work enough to sustain myself, pay my taxes and all that why shouldn't i spend my free time where i want?

 

Pay back to society? Like i said, if i work and pay everything i am entitled too i think no one can complain.

 

Why does it matter so much for you and other people what's real and what's virtual. When VR is perfected you wouldn't be able to destinguish one from the other if you didn't know in first place.

 

 

For example, i sleep 8 hours, i work 8 hours and i have 8 hours of free time. I spend almost all those 8 hours playing videogames, watching TV or just surfing the internet.

I don't feel desconected from the real world, in VR it will be the same but much better, because i will not be pressing buttons and staring at a screen, i will be exploring an entire medieval world in a VRMMORPG or in the middle of a war on a FPS.

 

I think those who oppose too much VR now as the worried parents in the 80's and 90's that were afraid of letting their kids too much time with consoles.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#15
La Bodysnatcher

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If I can be a god in virtual reality, maybe I could appreciate real life more. In real life I am a fleshy amoeba who wants to live forever and I want to see if I would like it or not in VR.


When you say "this is overrated" do you mean "I think this sucks?"

When you say "the majority hate it" do you mean "I hate it?"


#16
Cosmic Cat

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I'd rather be wasting my 8 hours working for a better life in reality instead of making my life better in VR. Your body is in the real world and not the VR. Most likely the majority of people you meet on VR are AI and you can't really make them real. I agree with you 100% that VR will be the most fun and entertaining thing you can literally think of. I'm 14 and I play a lot of video games, I know the feeling. Instead of looking at a 2d surface, your using you 5 senses and you experience so much detail that it is indistinguishable from reality. You would never get bored. I'm for sure going use VR. But either way, reality and VR no matter the quality they can't be compared. The worry I have about VR is that people like you will lose the sense of reality and which world is real. You have one world which gives you no forced obstacles and another with a lot of forced obstacles. It is natural to assume that people would choose the one one with no forced obstacles but remember, obstacles are what were born to do. Obstacles are why we evolved from single cellular organisms to multi cellular mathematical self aware machines. It is also why we went from caves to 1000 foot skyscrapers. My meaning for life is to progress. That is why we play games. In games, we progress and face obstacles. That is what makes games fun. But I want to progress in reality, to become a great man and not a great man in a video game. I want to go forward in life and really experience the "I did it" process without knowing that everything around me isn't real and isn't in VR.

#17
José Andrade

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If you want to use your 8 hours of free time to get a second job or to study more you are free to do it but the average person doesn't do that, they only have a job and then spend the 8 hours of free time in they hobbies.

 

But i understand your concern, but i think it's kinda exagerated. No one will go mad for being in VR for 8 hours a day. If it's a rich person that only leaves VR to eat and sleep, maybe but it will still take years for that to happen.

 

I think the oposite, if someone has a job, eats well and makes exercise 3 times a week, adding 8 hours of travels in beatiful worlds will only make that person even happier than before.

 

I don't know if you ever played an MMO but the first year i played World of Warcraft was one of the happiest years of my life. And that didn't transform in more years of hapiness because videogames nowadays are still limited. In VR it will be another story with countless infinite worlds to explore.

 

 

[color=#b22222;]Edit:[/color] About your edit/second post. I guarantee you, the best player in the most famours VR game in 2050 will be more recognised than the greatest boxe fighter or football player of that time.

 

And if you work in something that you like one thing doesn't invalidade the other. Conquer the real world in the 8 hours of job time. And conquer the virtual world in your 8 hours of free time.

 

[color=#0000cd;]Edit 2:[/color] If you don't care about the virtual world, simple put your 16 hours in real life, easy.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#18
José Andrade

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My opinion in resume is: Each individual will spend the time he/she wants in VR, some will spend 8 hours a day, some 6, others 2. But i think unless you stay there 16 or 18 hours a day you won't go all mad confusing the real world with the virtul one.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#19
zen_mutiny

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I'd rather be wasting my 8 hours working for a better life in reality instead of making my life better in VR. Your body is in the real world and not the VR. Most likely the majority of people you meet on VR are AI and you can't really make them real. I agree with you 100% that VR will be the most fun and entertaining thing you can literally think of. I'm 14 and I play a lot of video games, I know the feeling. Instead of looking at a 2d surface, your using you 5 senses and you experience so much detail that it is indistinguishable from reality. You would never get bored. I'm for sure going use VR. But either way, reality and VR no matter the quality they can't be compared. The worry I have about VR is that people like you will lose the sense of reality and which world is real. You have one world which gives you no forced obstacles and another with a lot of forced obstacles. It is natural to assume that people would choose the one one with no forced obstacles but remember, obstacles are what were born to do. Obstacles are why we evolved from single cellular organisms to multi cellular mathematical self aware machines. It is also why we went from caves to 1000 foot skyscrapers. My meaning for life is to progress. That is why we play games. In games, we progress and face obstacles. That is what makes games fun. But I want to progress in reality, to become a great man and not a great man in a video game. I want to go forward in life and really experience the "I did it" process without knowing that everything around me isn't real and isn't in VR.

 

How are you going to be great when machines have made human labor, even of the intellectual kind, obsolete?

 

Even if it isn't...

 

People already conduct a large amount of their business on the Internet, and more and more of their real life business is transitioned to the Internet every day. It's feasible that in less than 20 years, all "real life business" is conducted in VR, on the Internet.

 

The Internet is going to be so interwoven with our real lives via augmented and virtual reality, that each new generation will look at the Internet and VR less and less as something apart from the real world. Instead, they will look at it as just another part of it.

 

Think of how we now live in air-conditioned buildings, in cities and communities that are increasingly designed around human comfort. Do you consider that "not living in the real world," as opposed to roughing it in the wild, without modern amenities, foraging and hunting for food? On the contrary, if someone chose to live that way today, many people would probably view their choice in the opposite light, as if those aspiring hunter-gatherers are actually the ones who have chosen to "disconnect" themselves from the "real world." Ironically, in the future, VR may be the only convenient option for someone who wants to live that way.

 

Perhaps, you are concerned that if you spend too much time in VR, you will become "disconnected from reality" and neglect developing yourself in ways that will further your career aspirations, social life, sex life, physical fitness, etc. If everyone is online for a great deal of their lives, in fact, sharing time between the real world and virtual worlds constantly and simultaneously, then you are already furthering your career and social aspirations, possibly even your sex life with the time you spend in VR. Physical fitness may seem a bit trickier, but even that is an obstacle we can overcome. Muscles can be stimulated in more ways than using your mind to engage them in repetitive tasks. If you're immersed in VR through a nanosystem that intercepts and/or diverts or replaces the signals that are being sent to and from your brain and body, the same computer system that keeps you immersed in virtual worlds can exercise your body while you are "away." If you don't trust a machine to engage in physical exercise without you "present" (why wouldn't you, it will probably be smarter than you?), then there may be ways to stimulate your muscles electrically while your body remains safely in a bed or chair.



#20
Cosmic Cat

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My opinion in resume is: Each individual will spend the time he/she wants in VR, some will spend 8 hours a day, some 6, others 2. But i think unless you stay there 16 or 18 hours a day you won't go all mad confusing the real world with the virtul one.

It really matters on the kind of person.






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