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What is wrong with divorcing reality?


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#21
zen_mutiny

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Depending on how optimized your brain is, you may be spending time in multiple VR instances and the "real world" at the same time. You may have copies of your mind running around in any of those instances, or controlling your actual body, and then re-assimilating their memories at a later time. Maybe, if your brain (or its cybernetic extensions) can handle it, you'll be constantly absorbing the memories of multiple selves, all the time. We'll be able to accomplish marvelous things once we have software and hardware that's compatible with the human brain.



#22
Cosmic Cat

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People already conduct a large amount of their business on the Internet, and more and more of their real life business is transitioned to the Internet every day. It's feasible that in less than 20 years, all "real life business" is conducted in VR, on the Internet.

 

 

less 20 years is an impossibly optimistic prediction. Especially when you say all of business. Doing business online is going to boom for sure but it requires the trading of physical material with money or another physical material. Why do you need physical items in VR. It's like buying Video Game currency. It's a waste, your not going to feed yourself with it. 

 

 

 

 

The Internet is going to be so interwoven with our real lives via augmented and virtual reality, that each new generation will look at the Internet and VR less and less as something apart from the real world. Instead, they will look at it as just another part of it.

 

Think of how we now live in air-conditioned buildings, in cities and communities that are increasingly designed around human comfort. Do you consider that "not living in the real world," as opposed to roughing it in the wild, without modern amenities, foraging and hunting for food? On the contrary, if someone chose to live that way today, many people would probably view their choice in the opposite light, as if those aspiring hunter-gatherers are actually the ones who have chosen to "disconnect" themselves from the "real world." Ironically, in the future, VR may be the only convenient option for someone who wants to live that way.

 

Perhaps, you are concerned that if you spend too much time in VR, you will become "disconnected from reality" and neglect developing yourself in ways that will further your career aspirations, social life, sex life, physical fitness, etc. If everyone is online for a great deal of their lives, in fact, sharing time between the real world and virtual worlds constantly and simultaneously, then you are already furthering your career and social aspirations, possibly even your sex life with the time you spend in VR. Physical fitness may seem a bit trickier, but even that is an obstacle we can overcome. Muscles can be stimulated in more ways than using your mind to engage them in repetitive tasks. If you're immersed in VR through a nanosystem that intercepts and/or diverts or replaces the signals that are being sent to and from your brain and body, the same computer system that keeps you immersed in virtual worlds can exercise your body while you are "away." If you don't trust a machine to engage in physical exercise without you "present" (why wouldn't you, it will probably be smarter than you?), then there may be ways to stimulate your muscles electrically while your body remains safely in a bed or chair.

 

 

There is a huge and I mean a huge difference between Virtual Reality and Reality. First and utmost, In VR you do not transfer your damn consciousness into the machine. Your mind is being stimulated or "tricked" by technology to perceive something that doesn't exist. It's just a bunch of 0s and 1s (i don't know about quantum computing though, a bunch of 0.1s i guess). How can our ancestors have babies if this is VR?  I can understand how this reality can be a simulation but I mean it can't be VR because our bodies and minds will always be stuck in the real world. Someone can just disconnect the power and your back to the real world. If all humans were to go to VR while robots were to control the world what is the meaning of life? Life is about going forward. Going and doing the impossible. VR can not do that when everything around you doesn't exist, you just experience it. Also when you say AI was going to become smarter than humans, humans would most likely upgrade their minds into the same intelligence. Also, the world needs humans unless we want to go extinct by having sex online. I know a lot of people would stay in reality instead of VR. Those people who dedicate their lives in VR should mostly be the unfortunate men and woman who are severely physically handicapped, if you are luckily healthy then stop whining and trying to escape the real world because it will always come back to get you.

 

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#23
Cosmic Cat

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I would love to experience these images in VR though. They seem really epic.

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#24
José Andrade

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Some of the creatures in those images make awesome raid bosses to fight with a bunch of friends in VR!

Shadow of the Colossus! <3

 

 

 

less 20 years is an impossibly optimistic prediction. Especially when you say all of business. Doing business online is going to boom for sure but it requires the trading of physical material with money or another physical material. Why do you need physical items in VR. It's like buying Video Game currency. It's a waste, your not going to feed yourself with it.

Lots of business are already made by conference calls, what's up with with trading money and materials? Bank transfers for money and people to deliver the goods, in 20 years it will be robots.

 

Buying in game currency doesn't feed me but if i want that virtual item for my VR home or whatever and i have money to buy it, why shouldn't i?

 

 

 

 

Depending on how optimized your brain is, you may be spending time in multiple VR instances and the "real world" at the same time. You may have copies of your mind running around in any of those instances, or controlling your actual body, and then re-assimilating their memories at a later time. Maybe, if your brain (or its cybernetic extensions) can handle it, you'll be constantly absorbing the memories of multiple selves, all the time. We'll be able to accomplish marvelous things once we have software and hardware that's compatible with the human brain.

 

And i shall add what zen_mutiny said to my posts before. The line between real and virtual will start to blur and we will be everywhere at every time. Of course not in 2040 when FIVR is in it's infancy but in 2050 or 2060.

 

 

 

 

There is a huge and I mean a huge difference between Virtual Reality and Reality. First and utmost, In VR you do not transfer your damn consciousness into the machine. Your mind is being stimulated or "tricked" by technology to perceive something that doesn't exist. It's just a bunch of 0s and 1s (i don't know about quantum computing though, a bunch of 0.1s i guess). How can our ancestors have babies if this is VR?  I can understand how this reality can be a simulation but I mean it can't be VR because our bodies and minds will always be stuck in the real world. Someone can just disconnect the power and your back to the real world. If all humans were to go to VR while robots were to control the world what is the meaning of life? Life is about going forward. Going and doing the impossible. VR can not do that when everything around you doesn't exist, you just experience it. Also when you say AI was going to become smarter than humans, humans would most likely upgrade their minds into the same intelligence. Also, the world needs humans unless we want to go extinct by having sex online. I know a lot of people would stay in reality instead of VR. Those people who dedicate their lives in VR should mostly be the unfortunate men and woman who are severely physically handicapped, if you are luckily healthy then stop whining and trying to escape the real world because it will always come back to get you.

 

Again, define real, as far as we know the chances of we living in a simulation are very high. Like we will make a virtual world, we can already be in virtual world created by someone that lives in a virtual world created by another someone that....you get the idea. We may very well be a bunch of 0s and 1s as well.
 

If we are in a simulation already, winch we probably are, that means that we don't have a meaning of life? If i fall in love for someone what's the difference of being with her here or in VR? You can argue that dating in Skype is not the same as dating in real life but if both of you have the 5 senses there, how come is not a date?
 

How come everything around me doesn't exist? If i can feel the tree, smell it, listen to the wind in the leafs and taste it if i bite it?

 

I am a healthy man so if i like video games i can't spend all the time i want on theme just because i am healthy?...

 

 

It's not about escaping the real world, it's about doing what's more enjoyable for you. Why don't you go hunt or live in a cave instead buying food and comment on forums? It's more real.

 

 

Basically everything you can do in real life you will be able to do in VR with many perks, like not dying, other than electricity bill and maybe a subscription for VR being able to travel around the world without spending a cent, talk with millions of people that otherwise you would never meet, etc, etc. So why not? You just talk about going forward in real life, the average person will still have his job and sleep 8 hours a day. So he is going forward. I am repeating myself too much already but i think you thinking with too much strength that everyone will abandon their lives entirely.

 

Maybe we will leave our physical bodies behind when we mind upload ourselves to VR but that's still many, many decades away, maybe 100 years away and that's another story.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#25
Alric

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So the virtual world is just 1s and 0s? Well what is the real world if not a bunch of protons, neutrons and electrons? The virtual world is made and exists in the real world, so it is by definition a part of the real world.Things you do on it, effect other people in real ways. Even if you just sit in a room and stare at a blank wall, you are effecting the world around you by moving air molecules around as you breathe, and moving things in your brain to think.

 

Also what is to stop me from living in a virtual reality world my entire life, while sending information out to others to control the world? For example, if I have a bunch of robots under my command and I draw and design a space ship while in a virtual reality world then send them my blue prints and they build it, then I have just built a real life space ship without ever having left the virtual world. I can then have them pick up my body and carry me into the space ship and fly to another planet.

In that example you just flew to another planet without ever leaving virtual reality. How isn't that real?



#26
La Bodysnatcher

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I just feel that, at least for some there just shouldn't be any regulation on if you stay in VR for as long as it isn't life threatening amounts of time like 20 days straight. I don't think that at least for a century will humans be able to stay in VR indefinitely anyway and by that time, we'd have tons of transhumanist developments going on that would probably make real life not different from some VR.


When you say "this is overrated" do you mean "I think this sucks?"

When you say "the majority hate it" do you mean "I hate it?"


#27
GenX

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I wonder if I should work on starting a business that will store and nourish your body for a monthly fee while you are plugged into the VR world...


The only thing we ever want is more


#28
Cosmic Cat

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I can imagine you'd be a trillionaire in the future.

#29
Cosmic Cat

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So the virtual world is just 1s and 0s? Well what is the real world if not a bunch of protons, neutrons and electrons? The virtual world is made and exists in the real world, so it is by definition a part of the real world.Things you do on it, effect other people in real ways. Even if you just sit in a room and stare at a blank wall, you are effecting the world around you by moving air molecules around as you breathe, and moving things in your brain to think. Also what is to stop me from living in a virtual reality world my entire life, while sending information out to others to control the world? For example, if I have a bunch of robots under my command and I draw and design a space ship while in a virtual reality world then send them my blue prints and they build it, then I have just built a real life space ship without ever having left the virtual world. I can then have them pick up my body and carry me into the space ship and fly to another planet. In that example you just flew to another planet without ever leaving virtual reality. How isn't that real?

My whole point was that VR was stimulating your mind. I didn't say it wasn't real, just a bunch of 0s and 1s, like your computer. Those 0s and 1s are made by transistors. Every thing is real, Virtual Reality is real, its all in this universe physically.

#30
GenX

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I can imagine you'd be a trillionaire in the future.

A trillionaire might be a bit much.  I'd settle for a billion...

 

Actually though, it probably costs a lot of money to keep a human body healty in that state.  Sure you could probably store a lot of people in a relatively small space (think of a Japanese pod hotel, for example).  But you'd have to do more than just hook them up to a feeding tube.  Let's say someone needs to spend a year in VR for whatever reason.  You'd have to find a way to make sure that their muscles didn't atrophe.  And you'd have to be heavily insured.  What if there were a natural disaster and your warehouse of people was damaged and lots of people were hurt?  Or what if someone has a heart attack while their in their pod in my care?  Would I have to have a doctor or two on site 24hrs a day?  And a mall cop wouldn't cut it for security.  How many people would want to break into my warehouse and start stealing organs to sell on the black market?  My warehouse would have to be more like a vault and I'd need almost a mini-army of well-trained security guards. 


The only thing we ever want is more


#31
Cosmic Cat

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I think I worded everything wrong. Let me get things straight by saying Everything.Everthing. Is made of quarks,atoms, particles, protons, neutrons electrons, (strings?). So when you say VR as in a different world or universe you are wrong. What I was trying to say since the very beginning was I was worried about the negative effects of VR. Like spending your whole life playing a game. Everyone has to understand that VR is just another part of reality and you are not escaping it. I will use VR but I will not use it too much, as Jose said he would use it for 8 hours and go to sleep and then go to work. I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

#32
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I can imagine you'd be a trillionaire in the future.

A trillionaire might be a bit much. I'd settle for a billion... Actually though, it probably costs a lot of money to keep a human body healty in that state. Sure you could probably store a lot of people in a relatively small space (think of a Japanese pod hotel, for example). But you'd have to do more than just hook them up to a feeding tube. Let's say someone needs to spend a year in VR for whatever reason. You'd have to find a way to make sure that their muscles didn't atrophe. And you'd have to be heavily insured. What if there were a natural disaster and your warehouse of people was damaged and lots of people were hurt? Or what if someone has a heart attack while their in their pod in my care? Would I have to have a doctor or two on site 24hrs a day? And a mall cop wouldn't cut it for security. How many people would want to break into my warehouse and start stealing organs to sell on the black market? My warehouse would have to be more like a vault and I'd need almost a mini-army of well-trained security guards.
Yea, you can have diffrent "play" rooms where there are different games or simulations your customers can play together in.

#33
Alric

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Well my point is that there is no difference at all. The only downside is humans having fleshy weak bodies. When we get to the point where we are robots, or we can fully download our brain into a computer, then you could live in virtual reality forever, and never come out. Until that point, you don't want to die or become ill so you will need to come out only to prevent that. Otherwise any other amount of time is just arbitrary.

 

It would probably be possible to be in virtual reality nearly all day, if you took a few breaks to eat and do a little exercise and you would be fine.



#34
zen_mutiny

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Well my point is that there is no difference at all. The only downside is humans having fleshy weak bodies. When we get to the point where we are robots, or we can fully download our brain into a computer, then you could live in virtual reality forever, and never come out. Until that point, you don't want to die or become ill so you will need to come out only to prevent that. Otherwise any other amount of time is just arbitrary.

 

It would probably be possible to be in virtual reality nearly all day, if you took a few breaks to eat and do a little exercise and you would be fine.

 

Any computer that's advanced enough to run a convincing full immersion virtual reality simulation would be more than capable of feeding and walking your body while you do more important things.



#35
StanleyAlexander

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^ Truth.  Download an automated exercise routine and you'll be working out while your brain--"you"--is online.

I think I worded everything wrong. Let me get things straight by saying Everything.Everthing. Is made of quarks,atoms, particles, protons, neutrons electrons, (strings?). So when you say VR as in a different world or universe you are wrong. What I was trying to say since the very beginning was I was worried about the negative effects of VR. Like spending your whole life playing a game. Everyone has to understand that VR is just another part of reality and you are not escaping it. I will use VR but I will not use it too much, as Jose said he would use it for 8 hours and go to sleep and then go to work. I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

A complete description of the universe would include a description of the VR "world" nested inside it, true.  But you're looking at it from an artificial "outside" perspective.  The more useful perspective would be your own, where the ultimate description of reality is what you experience.  In that sense, the mature VR "world" is every bit as real as the world you experience outside it, and in many ways much more powerful, useful, and relevant to your life and your place in society.


Humanity's destiny is infinity

#36
zen_mutiny

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^ Truth.  Download an automated exercise routine and you'll be working out while your brain--"you"--is online.

I think I worded everything wrong. Let me get things straight by saying Everything.Everthing. Is made of quarks,atoms, particles, protons, neutrons electrons, (strings?). So when you say VR as in a different world or universe you are wrong. What I was trying to say since the very beginning was I was worried about the negative effects of VR. Like spending your whole life playing a game. Everyone has to understand that VR is just another part of reality and you are not escaping it. I will use VR but I will not use it too much, as Jose said he would use it for 8 hours and go to sleep and then go to work. I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

A complete description of the universe would include a description of the VR "world" nested inside it, true.  But you're looking at it from an artificial "outside" perspective.  The more useful perspective would be your own, where the ultimate description of reality is what you experience.  In that sense, the mature VR "world" is every bit as real as the world you experience outside it, and in many ways much more powerful, useful, and relevant to your life and your place in society.

 

Exactly. For all we know, we live in a virtual reality that was originally created by someone else for their own amusement. Why not live in your own world, every bit as detailed as the one you already live in (or more), that was created by you, possibly with the assistance of AI (possibly more intelligent than you, so that you would still have some element of surprise) for your own amusement? Why live in someone else's world when you can live in your own? It's not like you can't come back and visit anytime you want. Plus, you'd have countless other worlds that have been created by other users to explore as well. Between indefinite life extension and VR, I don't see how anyone can believe that the future will be boring.



#37
José Andrade

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I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

 

At first most people will keep their job and only use VR in their free time, maybe some rich people will spend 16+ hours a day in it but that's not what the average Joe will do. At lest at the beginning. But in 100 years if we are all still here thanks to age treatments, oh boy, you won't see anyone outside VR.

 

Nowadays there's pro gamers that make hundreds of thousands of €/$ a year. You think they aren't going forward in real life? Their houses and Ferraris disagree.

 

In VR it will be the same thing, how much do you think the best player of each VR video game will make in 2060 when VR is THE SHIT? More than C. Ronaldo or any other sport star, i assure you.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#38
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I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

At first most people will keep their job and only use VR in their free time, maybe some rich people will spend 16+ hours a day in it but that's not what the average Joe will do. At lest at the beginning. But in 100 years if we are all still here thanks to age treatments, oh boy, you won't see anyone outside VR. Nowadays there's pro gamers that make hundreds of thousands of €/$ a year. You think they aren't going forward in real life? Their houses and Ferraris disagree. In VR it will be the same thing, how much do you think the best player of each VR video game will make in 2060 when VR is THE SHIT? More than C. Ronaldo or any other sport star, i assure you.
They don't play games 24/7. The people making the games get more money then "pro" gamers. Same thing with VR. And if the pro VR players were to get rich, I doubt they'd get rich on VR, just really famous. They would have to spend there money on real life items.

#39
José Andrade

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Game developers make more game than the average professional gamer but not more than the top of the top. They win tons of money, streams, publicity, team sponsorship, tournaments, bets, some pro gamers bet thousands of €/$ with rich fanboys that want a chance to play with theme, they also bet against other pros. You doubt someone will get rich in VR? Haha, there are people already that are rich, not super rich but rich just by selling virtual items in Second Life and you are teeling me no one will be rich with VR? Some pro gamers earn enough to sustain themselves and wife plus their children JUST BY STREAMING. Now imagine someone streaming his field of view to millions of people in 2060 when VR is famous in every country of the world. Sorry if i am being a bit rude but you have no idea.


"In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. It's a virtual world, but i still feel more alive here than i do in the real one." Kirito - Sword Art Online


#40
Cosmic Cat

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^ Truth.  Download an automated exercise routine and you'll be working out while your brain--"you"--is online.

I think I worded everything wrong. Let me get things straight by saying Everything.Everthing. Is made of quarks,atoms, particles, protons, neutrons electrons, (strings?). So when you say VR as in a different world or universe you are wrong. What I was trying to say since the very beginning was I was worried about the negative effects of VR. Like spending your whole life playing a game. Everyone has to understand that VR is just another part of reality and you are not escaping it. I will use VR but I will not use it too much, as Jose said he would use it for 8 hours and go to sleep and then go to work. I would try to use my time to try to make my life better in reality because you can't escape it. That is human purpose, to improve, to progress. That was my whole point. I won't use VR for my life because it's pointless to dedicate my life to it. And if everything is a simulation then we are still part of reality.

A complete description of the universe would include a description of the VR "world" nested inside it, true.  But you're looking at it from an artificial "outside" perspective.  The more useful perspective would be your own, where the ultimate description of reality is what you experience.  In that sense, the mature VR "world" is every bit as real as the world you experience outside it, and in many ways much more powerful, useful, and relevant to your life and your place in society.

 

Exactly. For all we know, we live in a virtual reality that was originally created by someone else for their own amusement. Why not live in your own world, every bit as detailed as the one you already live in (or more), that was created by you, possibly with the assistance of AI (possibly more intelligent than you, so that you would still have some element of surprise) for your own amusement? Why live in someone else's world when you can live in your own? It's not like you can't come back and visit anytime you want. Plus, you'd have countless other worlds that have been created by other users to explore as well. Between indefinite life extension and VR, I don't see how anyone can believe that the future will be boring.

 

I guess this is just how I view things. I don't really enjoy living in my own world (even with surprising AI) because I don't feel ready to leave this world. Remember, I'm only 14, I have yet to experience the world. It was what I was born to do.






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