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Multi-planetary civilization: Mars & Moon but what's next?


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#1
Lucasus

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Hi everybody (It's my first post) :)

 

I think everybody agrees that the first non-Earth planet which humans will have a chance to colonize will be Mars. But what planet/place will be colonized next (and when)? Venus is a very hostile place but maybe we'll be able to establish some kind of "cloud cities" on it? Or maybe the next place will be some of Jupiter's/Saturn's moons?

 

 



#2
FutureGuy

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Hi, welcome on Future Timeline.

 

I'd assume some of Jupiter's moons would be next. 



#3
Cosmic Cat

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Hey, I always think Venus would be an option if we found a way to lower the atmosphere. Probes maybe?

#4
PrimordialBeing

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I know it's not a planet, but I think that after Mars, we will colonise Europa. But not many will head there, just scientists, to study the planet and see if life is there. That, or we will land on some asteroids next, to extract some metals to ship back to Earth. But that will likely just involve mostly robots, and a few humans making sure that everything is running smoothly.
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#5
Mashallah

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Hi everybody (It's my first post) :)

 

[color=#ff0000;]I think everybody agrees that the first non-Earth planet which humans will have a chance to colonize will be Mars. [/color]But what planet/place will be colonized next (and when)? Venus is a very hostile place but maybe we'll be able to establish some kind of "cloud cities" on it? Or maybe the next place will be some of Jupiter's/Saturn's moons?

 

I disagree. While Mars is hyped a lot, I doubt we'll see any large colonies there soon. Moon, Venus and Jovian satellites are all significantly better candidates for colonization and/or terraformation.


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#6
Craven

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In theory you could colonize Mars today. Not Venus. Not anytime soon.


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#7
Mashallah

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In theory you could colonize Mars today. Not Venus. Not anytime soon.

 

If by colonizing Mars you mean "a small capsule with 5 humans in it" and by colonizing Venus you mean "a large ground-based megapolis", sure.

I'm saying that Venus will likely be the first with big colonies.


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#8
Lucasus

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Thanks for responses.

 

To clarify my question, I would split it into two more detailed sub-questions, because answers may be different for them:

  • Where there will be the next potential human base with a permanent human presence apart from hypothetical stations on the Moon & Mars? â€‹
  • Where there will be the next potential self sustaining human colony (again, not including the Moon & Mars)?

Ad. 1, I think the next base will be established on some Jovian moon. Ad 2 - it could be rather Venus



#9
four

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Hi everybody (It's my first post) :)

 

[color=#ff0000;]I think everybody agrees that the first non-Earth planet which humans will have a chance to colonize will be Mars. [/color]But what planet/place will be colonized next (and when)? Venus is a very hostile place but maybe we'll be able to establish some kind of "cloud cities" on it? Or maybe the next place will be some of Jupiter's/Saturn's moons?

 

I disagree. While Mars is hyped a lot, I doubt we'll see any large colonies there soon. Moon, Venus and Jovian satellites are all significantly better candidates for colonization and/or terraformation.

 

...what?

Moon and Venus both have virtually no water. Jovian satellites have low gravity and are cold. 

I think that, long term, Venus is easier to terraform than Mars (http://www.orionsarm...usQuickly.pdf); Mars needs imports of nitrogen for terraforming which is rather difficult, and it also has lower gravity

, but for short-term colonization Mars is superior. It's the nearest place apart from Moon and Venus. Moon just doesn't have all the elements needed for life so you need to import. Venus is too hot on the surface and floating habitats are more difficult to build. Mars has water, oxygen, and shielding from radiation, which all help towards colonization.


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#10
Mashallah

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Hi everybody (It's my first post) :)

 

[color=#ff0000;]I think everybody agrees that the first non-Earth planet which humans will have a chance to colonize will be Mars. [/color]But what planet/place will be colonized next (and when)? Venus is a very hostile place but maybe we'll be able to establish some kind of "cloud cities" on it? Or maybe the next place will be some of Jupiter's/Saturn's moons?

 

I disagree. While Mars is hyped a lot, I doubt we'll see any large colonies there soon. Moon, Venus and Jovian satellites are all significantly better candidates for colonization and/or terraformation.

 

...what?

Moon and Venus both have virtually no water. Jovian satellites have low gravity and are cold. 

[color=#ff0000;]I think that, long term, Venus is easier to terraform than Mars [/color](http://www.orionsarm...usQuickly.pdf); Mars needs imports of nitrogen for terraforming which is rather difficult, and it also has lower gravity

, but for short-term colonization Mars is superior. It's the nearest place apart from Moon and Venus. Moon just doesn't have all the elements needed for life so you need to import. Venus is too hot on the surface and floating habitats are more difficult to build. Mars has water, oxygen, and shielding from radiation, which all help towards colonization.

 

 

Not really. There's a fast and cheap way to terraform it: melt the poles by either smacking Phobos/Deimos/both into them or by dropping a lot of dirty (dirty means low yield with high nuclear fallout) nuclear bombs. That way you get a cheap CO2 atmosphere fast and can move on from there by seeding it with a lot of GM plants.


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#11
Craven

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If by colonizing Mars you mean "a small capsule with 5 humans in it" and by colonizing Venus you mean "a large ground-based megapolis", sure. I'm saying that Venus will likely be the first with big colonies.

Not really. I mean than with today's we could send there people and resources to build subterran colony, with solar panels on surface, give them 3d printers to expand, perhaps build sections of colony on ground (we could also use subterran caverns that almost surely are there already, just seal them and fill with breathable atmosphere). There is no way to do anything like that on Venus. Volcanism, extreme temperatures, extreme pressure, extreme acidity. Remind me please. What planet has human rovers happily rolling around making pictures and operating for long years, and what planet killed every human artifact within less than two hours?
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#12
Mashallah

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If by colonizing Mars you mean "a small capsule with 5 humans in it" and by colonizing Venus you mean "a large ground-based megapolis", sure. I'm saying that Venus will likely be the first with big colonies.

Not really. I mean than with today's we could send there people and resources to build subterran colony, with solar panels on surface, give them 3d printers to expand, perhaps build sections of colony on ground (we could also use subterran caverns that almost surely are there already, just seal them and fill with breathable atmosphere). There is no way to do anything like that on Venus. Volcanism, extreme temperatures, extreme pressure, extreme acidity. Remind me please. What planet has human rovers happily rolling around making pictures and operating for long years, and what planet killed every human artifact within less than two hours?

 

 

I fail to see any barriers to making floating bases on Venus.

Besides, I only claimed that Venus is more likely to get LARGE colonies first, because it seems more useful to me and it's also easy to terraform.


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#13
Craven

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I fail to see any barriers to making floating bases on Venus. Besides, I only claimed that Venus is more likely to get LARGE colonies first, because it seems more useful to me and it's also easy to terraform.

I envy that conviction. :p Could you aslo, please, restrain yourself from quoting everything in your posts?
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#14
Cosmic Cat

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Mars will probably be having large colonies first. Its easier to increase an atmosphere than decrease it. Also mars is easier to obtain water, food, soil. Venus is a hell hole where 96.5% of the air is carbon dioxide. Water vapour only takes 20ppm of the atmosphere on Venus. That's wayyyyyyyyy to little. Its ridiculous to think that Venus, outside of the habitable zone will be largely colonized as compared to mars. Which has the most earth like temperatures than any celestial body in our solar system. Too much factors weighing on mars than Venus when coming to large scale colonization.

#15
Ru1138

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Let's not forget, the rotation of Venus is very slow. We'd have to either spin it up or put up an adjustable mirror for a more clement day-night cycle. Neither are very easy.


What difference does it make?


#16
Mashallah

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Mars will probably be having large colonies first. Its easier to increase an atmosphere than decrease it. Also mars is easier to obtain water, food, soil. Venus is a hell hole where 96.5% of the air is carbon dioxide. Water vapour only takes 20ppm of the atmosphere on Venus. That's wayyyyyyyyy to little. Its ridiculous to think that Venus, outside of the habitable zone will be largely colonized as compared to mars. Which has the most earth like temperatures than any celestial body in our solar system. Too much factors weighing on mars than Venus when coming to large scale colonization.

 

Consider the following: What will happen if you cool down Venus by reflecting a significant percentage of the light getting to it? (it will be possible to do it fairly simply soon, by the way)

 

Let's not forget, the rotation of Venus is very slow. We'd have to either spin it up or put up an adjustable mirror for a more clement day-night cycle. Neither are very easy.

 

I think that it's not an issue.

 

 

 

1. I envy that conviction. :p 2. Could you aslo, please, restrain yourself from quoting everything in your posts?

 

1. What?

2. Ok.


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#17
GenX

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Well, it's got to be the moon for the simple fact that if something goes wrong, humans from Earth might be able to get to the moon in time to save some people, but until we develop a whole lot better engines for our spaceships, anything beyond the moon is really on their own.  The moons of Jupiter and Saturn make sense if we have already created a thriving colony on our own moon (so we know how to do it now) and we have the technology to get there in a reasonable amount of time (less than a year?).  I don't know that there would be an actual colony, but there would at least be stations on asteroids between Mars and Jupiter as well.  Europa might be more of a gas station then a place for a colony since it seems like the ice is cracking and reforming somewhat frequently.  Venus seems like the hardest one to me.  I think we'd have better luck with just about every single other solid body in our solar system then we would with Venus.  For starters, we'd have to speed up the rotation.  It seems to me like we are a very long way from that kind of technology.  Once we do that then some of the other problems might sort themselves out, but we still have to lower the temperature and reduce the atmospheric pressure, and try to reduce the sulpher atmosphere.  Honestly, I don't really see the point in terraforming it.  By the time we have the capability to do that we'd probably be able to visit other solar systems and find much more habitable planets and / or moons.


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#18
Mashallah

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Well, it's got to be the moon for the simple fact that if something goes wrong, humans from Earth might be able to get to the moon in time to save some people, but until we develop a whole lot better engines for our spaceships, anything beyond the moon is really on their own.  The moons of Jupiter and Saturn make sense if we have already created a thriving colony on our own moon (so we know how to do it now) and we have the technology to get there in a reasonable amount of time (less than a year?).  I don't know that there would be an actual colony, but there would at least be stations on asteroids between Mars and Jupiter as well.  Europa might be more of a gas station then a place for a colony since it seems like the ice is cracking and reforming somewhat frequently.  Venus seems like the hardest one to me.  I think we'd have better luck with just about every single other solid body in our solar system then we would with Venus.  For starters, we'd have to speed up the rotation.  It seems to me like we are a very long way from that kind of technology.  Once we do that then some of the other problems might sort themselves out, but we still have to lower the temperature and reduce the atmospheric pressure, and try to reduce the sulpher atmosphere.  Honestly, I don't really see the point in terraforming it.  By the time we have the capability to do that we'd probably be able to visit other solar systems and find much more habitable planets and / or moons.

 

1. Why would anyone ever want to speed up Venus's rotation? That's not a priority.

2. Reflecting a portion of light from Venus isn't too hard (aerosols, for example), but if you cool down the atmosphere, a HUGE portion of it will condensate and freeze, basically solving almost all atmospheric problems, leaving you with a nice planet that is simple to work with afterwards.


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#19
Cody930

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1. Why would anyone ever want to speed up Venus's rotation? That's not a priority.

2. Reflecting a portion of light from Venus isn't too hard (aerosols, for example), but if you cool down the atmosphere, a HUGE portion of it will condensate and freeze, basically solving almost all atmospheric problems, leaving you with a nice planet that is simple to work with afterwards.

 

That's actually something people would want since it'd be easier to adapt to being there otherwise you're stuck with excruciatingly long days. Also since when did condensation lead automatically to freezing? You still have enormous amounts of heat trapped at the surface. Leaving the rotation as is would make cooling the atmosphere way more tedious. Venus receives twice as much solar radiation than Earth and it lacks a magnetic field.


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#20
Mashallah

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1. Why would anyone ever want to speed up Venus's rotation? That's not a priority.

2. Reflecting a portion of light from Venus isn't too hard (aerosols, for example), but if you cool down the atmosphere, a HUGE portion of it will condensate and freeze, basically solving almost all atmospheric problems, leaving you with a nice planet that is simple to work with afterwards.

 

[color=#ff0000;]1.[/color] That's actually something people would want since it'd be easier to adapt to being there otherwise you're stuck with excruciatingly long days. [color=#ff0000;]2.[/color] Also since when did condensation lead automatically to freezing? [color=#ff0000;]3. [/color]You still have enormous amounts of heat trapped at the surface. [color=#ff0000;]4. [/color]Leaving the rotation as is would make cooling the atmosphere way more tedious.[color=#ff0000;] 5.[/color] Venus receives twice as much solar radiation than Earth and it lacks a magnetic field.

 

1. Most people sleep indoors, so that's not a priority.

2. Never, but I suggested cooling it down enough for annoying stuff like acids to either simply condensate or even freeze.

3. I suggested leaving it to cool down. It might take years, but whatever. Waiting is simple.

4. How exactly? The same amount of heat is entering and leaving the system, it doesn't depend on the rotation.

5. That's the only real problem, but you'd face the same problem on Mars (it would only be quantitatively different and the solution would most likely be the same).


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