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Technological Unemployment News and Discussions

technological unemployment automation Luddites technism Venus Project robots basic income 4th Industrial Revolution unemployment artificial intelligence

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#41
Yuli Ban

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Ironically the people who are fighting for $15/hr minimum wage are probably speeding that process up.  The moment robots and drone deliveries are practical and less expensive then a minimum wage worker (including having to pay for the worker's ObamaCare) there are going to be a few million new unemployed workers.

 

with unemployment that massive, who are they going to sell their books to? people cannot survive without food, but they can without books. low purchasing power equals low demand equals low sales equals low profit equals check mate?

 

This is the Luddite Paradox; coinin' it now. If the capitalists want to save money by automating their workforce, they ironically lose money because no one has the money to buy products. If they employ people, they lose profits because of the cost of employing workers. It's a lose-lose situation for capitalism as we know it. 


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#42
Italian Ufo

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The worst time are about to come...



#43
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itll get better just give it time.


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#44
Italian Ufo

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^ Yes but imagine transition time... this is nothing new. Once in a law book i read about Polish workers killing the inventor of a machine in a industries that would reproduce the labor of 10 people, after the 70s and 80s I expect this multiply by 4. Maybe that when people could make money with video games or social networks in order to survive. But anyway, why I care, I may not even see all this.



#45
Yuli Ban

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The worst time are about to come...


And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#46
JesseBrandon

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This is so worrying. Where the hell will I be when I'm an old man in my 40's or 50's and I can't get a job because the robots have taken them all and I can't retire yet? Something must be done or indeed the worst time is about to come. :/


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#47
illykitty

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It is indeed worrying and should be taken seriously. Though honestly, I am sick of our current capitalist system. Things will get rough for a while, unfortunately. I'd hope however that people in developed countries will be ok, at least, regarding food and shelter... This is another reason to get an UBI. Afterwards the transition though, things could be better, depending on which country one lives in, how they handled the issue. I'm willing to go through tough times to emerge on the other side with a better life and society. I don't know how it will turn out but I have a little light of hope that things could be shaken up...

 

Difficult changes often go through tough times. I don't know how well I am going to cope with it... My husband is a developer, so his job is quite secure, comparatively - no robot can do his job, though in the future, AI could replace him but we're talking about the foreseeable future. But yes, my concern is that I don't currently work and the type of work I can do is easily replaceable unless I start learning something. My plan is once I get well enough to work, I might try to learn to become a developer as well. We're living comfortable, on one salary, which is quite lucky but I want more security.

 

Maybe all of us that don't feel so secure should at least try, if we can, to get into a line of work that isn't replaceable soon.



#48
Yuli Ban

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This is so worrying. Where the hell will I be when I'm an old man in my 40's or 50's and I can't get a job because the robots have taken them all and I can't retire yet? Something must be done or indeed the worst time is about to come. :/

Let's face it. The wealthy elite don't want to do anything, and many people delude themselves into thinking more jobs can be created. If common sense cannot be had, then common sense dictates one thing

 

revolution.jpg

 

Robots won't be capable enough to stop a global, violent revolution for some time. The period where the poor could rise up because of crises wrought by automation and the period where machines/electronic men are too powerful for any rebellion to overcome are not the same time periods. They're at least 15, 20 years apart. 

 

Now some elites are aware of this and don't want shit to go down (think Musk, Gates, their ilk, as well as others we don't discuss too often but still know what's happening). What we need is for them to be the elites that have the most sway in our elite-run society. 

 

Because trust me, if we get people like Ted Cruz in power, we'll get 20 years of "There's no unemployment crisis (artificially deflates unemployment numbers), the poor are just too lazy and want to mooch off the hard working rich. Technological unemployment is a myth created by the radical Left."

 

And then robots get smashed. And then we lose the Singularity and possibly civilization. Because we refused to accept change and do something to make sure it wasn't a violent event.


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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#49
Yuli Ban

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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.


#50
Unity

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surprised to see this in the wsj

 

http://blogs.wsj.com...-your-paycheck/

 

bloomberg had one too

 

http://www.bloomberg...rkers-worse-off



#51
kjaggard

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I'm telling you guys, you have it all backwards. You are looking at the way most people look at making a living, ie apply to a company for a job where you work for somebody who never meets you and pays you to do stuff they don't have the time or inclination to do in order to achieve their goals. You do the drudge work to realize somebody elses business success.

 

Then you see the ability of robots to do the drudge work to help people realize business success without having to hire people, and suddenly you all yell "Oh no! how will I ever survive without doing drudge work to realize somebody elses success?"

 

Um, there are robots to do drudgework that would allow a single individual to achieve success in conducting a business... you are a single individual. why wouldn't you harness robotics and automation to to realize your own business success?

 

the future might technically be robots taking 'our jobs', but our livings and careers would be in not having a job as much as owning our own businesses and contributig to the society and economy by creating supply in the supply and demand system ourselves rather than selling our time to others who will do that for us.


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#52
Jakob

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Um, there are robots to do drudgework that would allow a single individual to achieve success in conducting a business... you are a single individual. why wouldn't you harness robotics and automation to to realize your own business success?

Because that's impossible too. Nobody will buy anything you create or invent; they'll just have a robot do it for free. Wealth will be impossible if robots cater to humans' every whim, eating, walking, and breathing for them whether the humans like it or not.


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#53
Lunix688

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I think the workforce and jobs will evolve to more high-skill labor, such as STEAM. Also, there will likely be more emphasis on innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurialism.


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"Liberterianism is a mental disease. A national health crisis and a threat to the future of this country...Worse than the threat from terrorism, asteroids, disease and yes global warming.
It is mindless anti-government idiocy. If it isn't turned back I predict the end of this country as a world power. Simply put the need to educate our entire population like any sane country is sen as wrong by the cult that practice this foolish idiocy. So is simple workers rights, child labor and every other sane policy of the modern world."
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#54
Jakob

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I think the workforce and jobs will evolve to more high-skill labor, such as STEAM. Also, there will likely be more emphasis on innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurialism.

Once again, we fully agree with each other!



#55
kjaggard

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Um, there are robots to do drudgework that would allow a single individual to achieve success in conducting a business... you are a single individual. why wouldn't you harness robotics and automation to to realize your own business success?

Because that's impossible too. Nobody will buy anything you create or invent; they'll just have a robot do it for free. Wealth will be impossible if robots cater to humans' every whim, eating, walking, and breathing for them whether the humans like it or not.

 

it doesn't work that way. I can do a great many things myself which I instead pay somebody else to do. That is what an economy is. Otherwise we would all be farmers right now. The needs to live are food, shelter, clothing, fuel and family for the most part. Have you ever grown all your own food, built a house, sewn all your own clothing? Nope, other people do those things for you so that you can focus yourself on the things that you do for others that they could do for themselves if they didn't spend their time more focused on what they contribute to society.

 

And no robots won't simply do it all for free. anymore than your computer will do your homework for free for you. Robots are tools. They can do the things, but we have to provide the knowledge, motivation and capability. Try to program a computerized garden for a primer on what a pain in the ass it is to try to work all of that out.

 

Computers and robotics are simply a better hammer and an extra set of arms. You still have to be the head. and in any race I can promise you that me + a robot vs you + a robot could produce a good or service that you would trade a good or service you have or could create for. That's what an economy is.

 

this isn't Wal-E man these things won't do our walking and breathing for us anymore than phones speak for us and keyboards write for use.

 

3d printers can take digital data and make actual objects, but we still have to create the data and tell them what to print. Even then you have to manage them almost as much as you do a pet. Is it fed? Clean up after it. Fix it when it's not well. ect. Even three generations down the line they will need the same. Because my father circular saw is older than me and still needs caring and fixing, and even then it doesn't cut me a book shelf on it's own. I have to use it.

 

Just like I have to use robots as a tool. ect. and like all tool using in the past we will find that we like and exchange with one another because what other people can do with their tools appeals to us and nobody can do everything that somebody else can do.

 

 

I think the workforce and jobs will evolve to more high-skill labor, such as STEAM. Also, there will likely be more emphasis on innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurialism.

 

The STEAM feilds are little more than a short term shelter. Computers can already e used to do design and calculation tasks that no human can do. An engineer or designer using computers as tools can do amazing things... so amazing that a guy or gal running an engineering firm doesn't need a team of designers and engineers when they can just use their laptop.

 

This doesn't shift anything that I said. People will stop being employees and instead be single person businesses augmented by automation and robotics.


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#56
Ru1138

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I think the workforce and jobs will evolve to more high-skill labor, such as STEAM. Also, there will likely be more emphasis on innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurialism.

Once again, we fully agree with each other!

 

 

Too bad that that might not work either.


What difference does it make?


#57
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The other problem is that entrenched capital has an advantage over capital that begins later on unless there is some sort of paradigm shift or a fundamental physical limit is hit. To use an analogy compound interest on two different sums at the same rate one being bigger than the other they'll both grow at the same rate but the larger sum will always be larger. Reality doesn't always work this way of course (small companies tend to grow faster than large ones, etc) but as long as the math holds you end up with Hobbes' Leviathan. Also the means by which a person would aquire capital to start a business (banks) stack the rules very heavily in their favor.

http://www.newscient...ml#.VOrQdCaIbFo
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#58
matthewpapa

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I think the change will be somewhat slow, at least at first. Not as sudden as some here seem to think it will be. The AI/robot revolution is not going to be the magic end all "bam, doomsday!" or "bam, utopia!". For a while most robots may actually increase the productivity and/or living standard of some workers without costing anyone their job.

 

As an example: Just bought a roomba 770 a few weeks ago. I have used it several times already. It cleans my entire house floor thoroughly. Based on the data I have so far it saves me about 30-45 minutes vacuuming time a week. So thats at least 30 minutes more I have now that I did not have before to do other stuff. Not only that, it never took anyone's job. I did the vacuuming myself, now i dont have to do it anymore. I am actually increasing employment, because software/hardware devs were needed to design the product I bought. My standard of living just went up.

 

Admittedly this is somewhat of a cherry picked AI example (came to my mind first), but there are others like it. Think about:

voice recognition: I can 'type' a message in 1/3 of the time. Interfacing with devices is more useful

navigation: I can find the optimal route to an arbitrary location in about a second based on route and traffic. This saves me time and fuel

the smartphone revolution: people can communicate easily, or research something new throughout previously wasted time

semi self driving cars: transportation is safer now than ever before

 

These types of AI improvements cost nothing job wise, and increases our productivity.

 

It will only start to hurt with completely self driving cars that are reliable and affordable to businesses, and then finally the masses. What determines how painful it is for society will mainly how we choose to deal with it and how we best provision the excess labor force. (the transportation industry is millions of jobs in the USA alone)

 

I think we are at least a decade off or so before it hits to hurt. Regulation and safety concerns (though most likely unwarranted) will keep the technology from rapid widespread adoption. Phasing out the old fleet of automobiles will take quite a while. I doubt everyone here has 30-60k they can drop on a new car or SUV even if it does make your life a lot easier. Even businesses (Uber, transportation, delivery) will be somewhat slow to roll it out because they will need ways to best integrate it with their current business models.


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#59
dirty bean sanchez

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Everyone is so butt hurt that they are about to lose their jobs even when this won't be a problem for another 10-20 years.  And I for one think this most likely never be a problem at all.  People think we are screwed because they are thinking of future robots in todays world, not what it will be like in 2030 or so.  I think people are missing two key factors.  For one, we are going to start to enhance our own intelligences before any world changing robot revolution.  We will be able to achieve so many things we thought weren't possible before.  I can't even begin to fathom how this will play out, but I know it will be either catastrophic or, more likely, brilliant.  

 

The other thing is with this scenario, like matthewpapa said, this won't eliminate jobs, it will create them.  And more likely to happen in my opinion, is that artificial intelligence/robots will provide us with an abundance wealth, allowing us have more fulfilling jobs that we only have to attend to a few hours a week (maybe no job at all if we choose so?) Damn guys come on, this is all in the timeline that I presume you have read and believe for the most part.  Everything will change, not just the capabilities of robots.  This will truly be an unrecognizable world in 30-50 years, not just technology wise, but culturally and economically.  Thats one thing I can say for sure.


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#60
sasuke2490

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Everyone is so butt hurt that they are about to lose their jobs even when this won't be a problem for another 10-20 years.  And I for one think this most likely never be a problem at all.  People think we are screwed because they are thinking of future robots in todays world, not what it will be like in 2030 or so.  I think people are missing two key factors.  For one, we are going to start to enhance our own intelligences before any world changing robot revolution.  We will be able to achieve so many things we thought weren't possible before.  I can't even begin to fathom how this will play out, but I know it will be either catastrophic or, more likely, brilliant.  

 

The other thing is with this scenario, like matthewpapa said, this won't eliminate jobs, it will create them.  And more likely to happen in my opinion, is that artificial intelligence/robots will provide us with an abundance wealth, allowing us have more fulfilling jobs that we only have to attend to a few hours a week (maybe no job at all if we choose so?) Damn guys come on, this is all in the timeline that I presume you have read and believe for the most part.  Everything will change, not just the capabilities of robots.  This will truly be an unrecognizable world in 30-50 years, not just technology wise, but culturally and economically.  Thats one thing I can say for sure.

Exactly how does one enhance their intelligence? BCI won't make you think smarter just faster. People were supposed to be able to live comfortably on a 10 hour work week and be able to provide a family as predicted 60 years ago. I doubt this time is different.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: technological unemployment, automation, Luddites, technism, Venus Project, robots, basic income, 4th Industrial Revolution, unemployment, artificial intelligence

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