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Universality


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#1
Unity

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What kinds of thoughts, behaviors, etc lead to universality? It seems over the long haul what survives is what is most universal, most compassionate, most intelligent, most wise.

One thing that seems to be useful is mindfulness. Meditation or observing your thoughts, emotions, bodily sensations, ie your "you" from a third person perspective seems to increase mindfulness.

I was thinking about this today when wondering what would an alien religion look like compared to earth religions. Perhaps they would have organizations to encourage compassion, forgiveness, etc because these seem to be structures that evolve in societies again and again because they are useful from an evolutionary perspective.

#2
caltrek

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Vulcans are really Buddhists in disguise.

 

It is hard to say what alien species would do in terms of formulating religious precepts. If they are "intelligent" then almost by definition they would have to have at least a significant segment of their species devoted to rational scientific thought and studies.  Beyond that, who knows what their own evolutionary history would produce in terms of philosophy and mythology. One important aspect would be how do they communicate.

 

One book I would recommend is The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.  I don't think the author got it quite right, but there is so much in his thesis that connects to what you do find in humans that I think it sheds light on how religion developed. The book includes speculative theories regarding schizophrenia. Christian acquaintances complain that the book argues that religious thought springs from insanity, but I think that is a miss-reading.  Language had a particular way of developing in the human species. It hard wires the brain in a particular way. It is also the source of instruction for human beings. This suggests a definite connection between how language developed and how our notions concerning God (or gods) developed. 

 

I wonder if advance AI will come to believe in God? 


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#3
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Well considering the intesrstices between language, logic, philosphy, math, and symbols it just might. Have you also noticed that many great scientists were devoted almost religiously to their pursuit? Sometimes like Einstein or Newton it was to fathom "the mind of god" but I think the same thing can be seen in Paul erdos, gödel, wittgenstein and his mysticism, etc. I believe the feeling of ecstasy or rapture also comes when solving great problems. We become addicted to it and it motivates us to pursue loftier intellectual heights. I believe in part this is why ai might be biological and must die. So many of our greatest thoughts come from the attempt to transcend death. Also, Vulcans are stoics not Buddhists ;)
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#4
TheAsianGuy_LOL

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I wonder if advance AI will come to believe in God? 

If the AI themselves don't consider them gods enough or that they believe their existence was from this God.

 

I think religion in an alien's mind might be of exploring the subconsciousness or the defining energy of which created not only the universe but the power of morality and the sorts. I'm no philosopher though, so that's all I can put out.  


"We know Everything, but not Everything"~ Me

"Don't question what I know, question what I don't know."~ Me

"Fear kills more dreams than failure ever will"~Italian UFO


#5
Raklian

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An AI might find its spiritual purpose is to figure out why man created it.


What are you without the sum of your parts?

#6
Mike the average

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I don't think aliens more advanced/knowledgeable than us would have any religion or spirituality at all, I expect them to be more logic than us partly because we are obviously still on the primitive side.  The more science we know about ourselves and in particular how our brain works the less need for any alternate methods. 

 

Religion will be lucky to see out this century on Earth,

 

this will be alongside the end or at least great reduction of devouring animal meat.


'Force always attracts men of low morality' - Einstein
'Great spirits always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds' - Einstein

#7
caltrek

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Like it or not, we are still human beings. So there will still be some basic psychological needs that will have to be filled. We may end up calling it "science" or "psychotherapy" or "philosophy",  but it will still end up having to address those needs.

 

Now one suggestion that comes to mind for those that follow this forum is trans-humanism - merging humans with machines. In particular with AI. What this misses is that is what precisely what the more developed religious thinkers try to do - eliminate man's alienation from the world and promoting a feeling of belonging instead. So merging with AI is just another way of trying to belong. In that sense there is nothing new under the sun there.  What is new is the precise method - AI. Still, too dramatic a merger or a merger that emphasizes AI will simply overwhelm the human. Some may not have a problem with that result, but good old fashion humanists will cringe at that idea.


The principles of justice define an appropriate path between dogmatism and intolerance on the one side, and a reductionism which regards religion and morality as mere preferences on the other.   - John Rawls


#8
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http://nerdreactor.c...cap-and-review/

Anyhow this was not supposed to be a topic about religion or spirituality per se but rather about the kinds of thinking that would be universal or benefit a universal culture

#9
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http://www.quantamag...-universal-law/

 

here is a good example of what I was talking about.  It seems the more I look into things the only truly universal things are spoken about in the language of mathematics.  music, geometries, math, it seems the crux of access of all physical knowledge as well.  also it is interesting from a pythagorean view of vibrations of the heavens.  I think this still applies today most obviously in string theory, but also in the ineffable qualities of universal constants. 



#10
TheComrade

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I was thinking about this today when wondering what would an alien religion look like compared to earth religions. Perhaps they would have organizations to encourage compassion, forgiveness, etc because these seem to be structures that evolve in societies again and again because they are useful from an evolutionary perspective.

 

Agree. If those aliens evolved from social animals (that's almost for sure) their early religion must be aimed to restrain their biological instincts and to settle their social conflicts (just as it was in our case). The type of those instincts and conflicts defines the list of alien commandments. "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet the other's sexual partner" seems pretty much universal. Other than that, we can expect some variations and nuances. But in general, i suspect, alien concepts of "good" and "evil" should not be really alien to us...






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