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2012 US Presidential Election


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#21
Caiman

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You are right, it is a theory, not a fact. They were wrong to call it a fact

No, sorry, you are wrong. The theory describes the fact. Just like the theory of gravity describes the fact that things fall to the ground when you drop them.

~Jon


#22
OrbitalResonance

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It will become a fact when its upgraded to the Law of Evolution. Even then it will be continually tested.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#23
Caiman

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How could the formation of life NOT fall into the category of evolution??? Isn't that the whole point?

Because evolution is not abiogenesis. It's pretty simple.

I don't really understand how some life could 'emerge' and then the rest follow the pattern of evolution?

Evolution is not concerned with why or how life emerged, just what happened after it did.

But your still going on about oh, they just decided to stick together for some reason or another! We don't really know this and cannot prove it!

Not for some reason or another. For no reason. It was a stroke of luck, on our part, that it happened and continued to happen. It took a very long time for multicellular life to emerge and an even longer time for complex multicelluar life to evolve into us.

~Jon


#24
Craven

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Who (...) what? (...) I want to know how (...) I don't really understand how (...) I want to know the point where



Welcome to the real world, where there is no instant answer to everything, where we developed scientific method, that allowed us to figure out that inside human being there are no clockwork wheels, but organs that serve purposes, that allowed us how fish evolved into human, and one day it will allow us to answer even your question.

Now get a helmet, because it may not happen anytime soon. :)
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#25
Caiman

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Even then it will be continually tested.

Just like all science is. Why are we still conducting experiments to improve our understanding of gravity, are you guys going to tell me that's 'just a theory' too?

~Jon


#26
jjf3

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Just like all science is. Why are we still conducting experiments to improve our understanding of gravity, are you guys going to tell me that's 'just a theory' too?


No gravity is all good in my book besides for a few things that we don't understand or know about it.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#27
Caiman

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Just like all science is. Why are we still conducting experiments to improve our understanding of gravity, are you guys going to tell me that's 'just a theory' too?


No gravity is all good in my book besides for a few things that we don't understand or know about it.

There's a metric shitload that we don't know about it. One of the biggest efforts in all of science right now is trying to understand how to unite gravity with quantum mechanics. Another is trying to understand why the universe doesn't act like our understanding of gravity says it should, hence research into dark matter and dark energy.

~Jon


#28
jjf3

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It was a stroke of luck, on our part, that it happened and continued to happen.


So out of the chaos of the emergence of life how could evolution follow such strict rules and guidelines as laid out by the scientific community? Shouldn't there be some type of connection between the two?
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#29
Craven

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Seriously, starts to look like you're trolling. Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Making paper has nothing to do with writing a novel. And as for emerging from chaos - it was just pile of dust, mostly hydrogen and hellium before planets formed.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#30
jjf3

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It appears like I am trolling because nobody is giving me a straight answer. I keep hearing abiogenesis is not evolution but at some point it just becomes evolution. Is that the scientific answer? From a few articles and clicks on wikipedia, google, and online encyclopedias and scientific forums that appears to be the answer?? I guess I am ok with that as long as ppl are trying to solve it. I am just letting people know my problem with Evolution. I am far from a religious nutjob and actually believe all religions are the same with mixed confusing mythology thrown in there copied from the original pagan myths and legends. I don't think evolution is the complete answer, I just believe that we know a lot less about it than we think we do.
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#31
OrbitalResonance

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Even then it will be continually tested.

Just like all science is. Why are we still conducting experiments to improve our understanding of gravity, are you guys going to tell me that's 'just a theory' too?


What are you talking about? Yes gravity is being continually tested. I agree with you on continual testing.

I am trying to avoid absolutes, which is religious, not scientific.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. - Carl Sagan


#32
Craven

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It appears like I am trolling because nobody is giving me a straight answer.

I keep hearing abiogenesis is not evolution but at some point it just becomes evolution. Is that the scientific answer?

No because it does not "become evolution". Abiogenesis creates life, evolution changes life. I can't think of straighter answer. Those are two separate things.


I don't think evolution is the complete answer, I just believe that we know a lot less about it than we think we do.

Complete answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything? No it's not. To how species change over time? Yes.
"I walk alone and do no evil, having only a few wishes, just like an elephant in the forest."

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone."

#33
Prolite

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Evidence that evolution is a fact of life, is all around us, constantly being proven. Here's more proof that just came about: http://www.futuretim...lticellularity/
I'm a business man, that's all you need to know about me.

#34
Wesfky

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(Trying to get a bit on topic) Well this go to show you that USA is a stupid country filled with stupid people as the stupid people like jjf3 will vote for the stupid people like Michele Bachmann.

#35
jjf3

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(Trying to get a bit on topic)

Well this go to show you that USA is a stupid country filled with stupid people as the stupid people like jjf3 will vote for the stupid people like Michele Bachmann.


Have you even read anything that I said on how I vote?? I am keeping a close eye on both parties. Unbiased unlike some people. I'm not saying I'm going to vote for her, I'm just keeping an eye on her and my options open. We need a money person to become President because the economy should be the main issue for voting in the election in 2012. If nobody seems promising in that aspect, I won't vote for anybody!!!
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#36
Shimmy

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You can't just say "Unbiased unlike some people" and think that makes it true. What makes the majority of the US population biased and you not? Everybody who votes will have some bias in their decision whether they are aware of it or not. You think that because you don't have a fixed allegience to one party and decide on specific candidates each year makes your choice absolutely non biased? that's ridiculous.

#37
Innsertnamehere

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Exactly, gravity is technically a theory. But like evolution, it's been tested so many times it's just regarded as a fact. Especially because people have seen it happen. We have seen animals evolve since the theory of evolution was introduced, and we have also seen gravity through space exploration and just walking around. It just so happens that the church is extremely slow at accepting ideas, it didn't accept that the earth went around the sun until the 1990's for example.

#38
Wesfky

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(Trying to get a bit on topic)

Well this go to show you that USA is a stupid country filled with stupid people as the stupid people like jjf3 will vote for the stupid people like Michele Bachmann.


Have you even read anything that I said on how I vote?? I am keeping a close eye on both parties. Unbiased unlike some people. I'm not saying I'm going to vote for her, I'm just keeping an eye on her and my options open. We need a money person to become President because the economy should be the main issue for voting in the election in 2012. If nobody seems promising in that aspect, I won't vote for anybody!!!


Funny story; I was watching Fox News today and they were talking about how the Government needs to reduce spending in order to gain revenue, rather than increase taxes from the current low levels so the Government actually has something to spend.

I guess the funny bit is, you have the same beliefs as Fox News, based on your shared stance on evolution.

Also I suggest you vote for Ronald Reagan. He has a degree in economics and because trickle down economics is such a great idea and is not the cause of the current situation in America. It isn't caused by the fact people like you, "intelligent" and "informed" are opened minded to which out of the two parties you vote for, because the best bit about democracy is the ease of only needing to follow both the parties, as three or more would be too hard. http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif
  • mic of orion likes this

#39
jjf3

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(Trying to get a bit on topic)

Well this go to show you that USA is a stupid country filled with stupid people as the stupid people like jjf3 will vote for the stupid people like Michele Bachmann.


Have you even read anything that I said on how I vote?? I am keeping a close eye on both parties. Unbiased unlike some people. I'm not saying I'm going to vote for her, I'm just keeping an eye on her and my options open. We need a money person to become President because the economy should be the main issue for voting in the election in 2012. If nobody seems promising in that aspect, I won't vote for anybody!!!


Funny story; I was watching Fox News today and they were talking about how the Government needs to reduce spending in order to gain revenue, rather than increase taxes from the current low levels so the Government actually has something to spend.

I guess the funny bit is, you have the same beliefs as Fox News, based on your shared stance on evolution.

Also I suggest you vote for Ronald Reagan. He has a degree in economics and because trickle down economics is such a great idea and is not the cause of the current situation in America. It isn't caused by the fact people like you, "intelligent" and "informed" are opened minded to which out of the two parties you vote for, because the best bit about democracy is the ease of only needing to follow both the parties, as three or more would be too hard. http://www.futuretim...tyle_emoticons/animate/thumbup.gif


As long as there is that type of bias in the world there will never be a true push towards bipartisan like your hero Obama wanted and tried to do. If a $14 Trillion debt is NOT the issue of this election and the problems of America, then please tell me what is???? I can't really find a more pressing issue than that. Because if we have no money, we can't do anything else now, can we??? We can't keep creating money out of thin air depleting the dollars' worth to nothing!!!!

Actually I haven't found too many people who question evolution as much as I do without having some type of relationship to creationism, which is silly. I was just saying that there are a couple of holes in the evolution theory.

Actually I would welcome another party not republican not democratic and not liberal or conservative. Maybe a party with a technology focus, scientific reasoning, and finance people. No more smoke and mirrors from both sides!!!! The system hasn't worked in sooo long that its impossible to believe that any politician elected tomorrow, will greatly change the way the world works on the inside.... and that's another reason why i didn't vote in the last election and am hesitant to vote in this one!
"Did you really expect some utopian fantasy to rise from the ashes?" Thomas Zarek-- Battlestar Galactica.

#40
mic of orion

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While yes, many republicans do believe in Christianity only a small portion actually believe everything in the Bible. And this I know from talking with people that i went to church with before I stopped going. I actually find that more people in the south believe everything in the Bible to be true.

I was raised by republican parents but i consider myself independent because i look at both sides of the issue unbiased. I like some things about the democratic party, and I like somethings about the republican party. I have very liberal views on technology and religion and have conservative views on government because I don't want them controlling my life!!!!

The Tea Party of course is a very small percentage of the Republican party. So think about doing some research before you throw the parties into one extreme category. I could as easily say that the liberals are all Satanic, PETA supporting gay hippies, but now that's not true is it?

I did not vote in the last election because i did not feel that anybody was worth it enough to become President. Certainly not Obama! Although at the time he did seem good. That was my first election. I don't think you will find many high school graduates look at the issues and candidates as fairly as I did. I got anger from both sides of politics asking why i didn't vote! Why would I vote for people I don't like???

I'm not saying Bachmann is the best choice for President. But the media has to realize that not every republican women is Sarah Palin! When Obama has radical views, and he does, it is not as big as a story as they are turning this one into. Truth is everybody has radical views about some issues. That being said my next post will be about the problems I have with evolution!



Let me correct you here on few points.

I didn't say entire republican party is a right wing loony bin collection of racist bigots, i've said only far right element, the teabaggers and right wing ex-kkk members.
Overall Republican party has some decent politicians and individuals who represent moderate view point that brings me to number 2.

2, Teabaggers aren't small fringe part of the republican movement, they represent one fifth of republican electorate, many of whom hate minorities, non-whites and believe nonsense such as that Earth is 6000 years old and that there are talking snakes.

A large segment of Republican party is also of similar opinion, many use religion to base their political campaigns on, somehow that makes them more honest and electable.

As to your comments regarding Obama and that evil women I can't bare to think or write her name, first off. Obama is not a radical, racist, bigoted, uneducated, stupid, self absorbed cu*t unlike someone else we know, his policies aren't radical or comprehensive, all he has done was to instigate health care reforms that were way overdue and give 50 million un-insured Americans access to medical insurance without being bankrupted in a process.

Reforms he initiated didn't go far enough to give all Americans access to free medical help/coverage as it is the case across the EU and all major industrialized nations, reason why so many liberals hate Obama, and the fact that is he compromises too much with the rebs.

Also, you can't blame Obama for economic wows America is in, you must blame Bush and his administration for it was Bush who ruined and destroyed American economy and any self-respect America had.

Now I really couldn't give a toss who you going to vote for, be it republican mainstream candidate or teabagger candidate at the next elections, but do read on what is happening around you before you start to point fingers, Rebs are good at it, yet they are the ones who caused all this mess, they are the ones who sold out America and made is a literally bankrupt. What Obama has inherited is a ruin with 14 trillion dollar debt and budget deficit that would scare Greek finance minister.

Now if you think this mess can be sorted in 4 years time you are deluding yourself, Rebs ruined America, it would take 2-3 generations of Americans to pay back/repair what Rebs/Bush did in 8 years of his rule.
It's dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.




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