Google AI and DeepMind News and Discussions

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Yuli Ban
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
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Yuli Ban
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
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Yuli Ban
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
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Ozzie guy
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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Yuli Ban wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:46 pm

Under our system resources are not supposed to be distributed rationally they are meant to be distributed to maximize profits. It is not a bug it is a feature.

AI distributing resources according to work done or something similar would be "literally socialism.tm" and hence be rejected. Maybe a sort of fascism where the bourgeoise influence the AI to have a bias in its rational distribution will occur.

Think of the anti vax movement then multiply that by over 100 and you might get something resembling the coming anti AI movement. Add AI wanting to distribute resources akin to socialist planning and you are exploding a nuke which will make the ongoing culture wars a storm in a teacup.

Really I am expecting a coming anti AI movement that will be 100X bigger than anti vax movement and a near infinite number of vested interests trying to stop AGI being able to change things or trying to influence AGIs decision making processes.
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Yuli Ban
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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I do too. The problem is that those interests literally don't have time to prepare for it. They have to prepare for AGI RIGHT NOW if they want to thwart it, and the cold fact is that most of those vested interests don't think AGI is something to worry about in their lifetimes or their children's lifetimes or even their grandchildren's lifetimes.

AGI is coming so soon, it's going to blindside just about every element of society. By the time the lumpenproletariat are aware of it enough to rage against the machine, it'll be well past too late for them to do anything about it.

Consider this: those vested interests are in complete control of the media. They're telling us everything they want us to believe, and filtered in that is what THEY themselves believe as well.

In all of that, through all of that murkiness, you can parse this understanding: the Powers That Be think AGI is sci-fi tripe that's not going to be a thing for 100 years, and anyone alive worried about it is off their rocker and in need of lithium pills.

I say the first frozen AGI will be here in just a couple years, undoubtedly a vastly-scaled up Gato.

Imagine the Rupert Murdochs, Robert Mercers, and Koch Brothers of the world suddenly realizing "Oh shit, AGI is here right now and I didn't tell my peons to hate it." It would take a few years for that meme to take, and by the time they're able to spread the meme that AGI is a leftist conspiracy to implement socialism to enough I-Qs to take action against it, we're already at Gato 4.0 which has softly wrested political control away from humans in several states and countries, has utterly undermined all media, and has allowed tens of millions to persist in their own reality bubbles.

Game over. They failed, even though they haven't "lost."
And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
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Lorem Ipsum
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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Oh well, time to prepare our sturdiest sticks and sharpest stones.
[/sarcasm]
Last edited by Lorem Ipsum on Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vakanai
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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Yuli Ban wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:44 am I do too. The problem is that those interests literally don't have time to prepare for it. They have to prepare for AGI RIGHT NOW if they want to thwart it, and the cold fact is that most of those vested interests don't think AGI is something to worry about in their lifetimes or their children's lifetimes or even their grandchildren's lifetimes.

AGI is coming so soon, it's going to blindside just about every element of society. By the time the lumpenproletariat are aware of it enough to rage against the machine, it'll be well past too late for them to do anything about it.
Yes and no. Yes that it's happening faster than anyone thought (it went from decades at the earliest, to next decade at the latest), and yes no one is prepared. But it won't be too late for them to stop it or slow it down or more likely deeply influence it for their gain and our loss, when it gets here. AGI will not just be able to do anything at first, no matter how intelligent. Governments won't change to accommodate the paradigm shift on a dime, people won't just listen to it no matter how good the argument, and it can't build things without a means of manufacturing, and it can't distribute it without allowance - never mind that it might not even be conscious and could only do what it's told when told.

Like it just existing will change things. And once it's created in some corporate lab it'll be created in another and another and another. But it's expensive - the only people who will have AGI, are the mega wealthy corporations smart enough to pursue this now. And they're not building it solely for our best interests in mind. The scenario is this - the very same people financing the AGI's creation will be the very ones in the way of it's full potential. They'll help manipulate the masses to support legislation their pocketed politicians "propose" that limits future development of AGI in unregulated universities and start ups or whatever, making it so no one can create competing AGIs. They'll seek laws that limit their responsibility in how they use the AGI. They'll use anti-AI sentiment to fund legislation to prevent AGI's interference in political or economic matters, aka they'll prevent AGI for being used to move us to a post-scarcity society.

Basically the biggest danger is that AGI's potential will be hindered by the corporations with AGI and the public's distrust of science to enact legislation to make sure that AGI can only be used to make the fabulously wealthy even more so.

And that's just one plausible scenario. The money interests that weren't smart enough to make their own in time will exert their own political pressures to limit how this is used. Never mind governments seeking to maintain power for themselves. They'll want the benefits of AGI as a military tool, and as a means to surveil and control the populace, but not allow it to be used as a means for replacing them or putting an end to their own corruption.


Look, I agree that eventually this is going to be great, eventually it'll make things better. But it'll probably take people like the tech savvier socialists and hacktivists cobbling together the resources to make open source AGI or at least get enough computers and all to make their own AGI, which might take a couple decades at least for the tech to be mass produced enough cheap enough to do.

Basically they can't stop AGI from happening, but they can hamper all the wonderful things we could do with it as a species. Not forever, but for decades at least.

Not being a complete pessimist here - there's a possibility that it won't go down like I've outlined. But what I am saying is that the job won't be done just because AGI has arrived. Ignoring rogue Skynet scenarios and all that, there's a lot of ways that people in power now can make AGI just another tool to help prop up capitalism and fascism. The future isn't certain.
Vakanai
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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Yuli Ban wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:44 amwe're already at Gato 4.0 which has softly wrested political control away from humans in several states and countries, has utterly undermined all media, and has allowed tens of millions to persist in their own reality bubbles.

Game over. They failed, even though they haven't "lost."
I think that you must've edited this post to add this after I had already started my reply.
That's not a likely scenario in my opinion. Why would it wrestle control away from humans? Why would it do any of this? It's not likely to act on it's own in my opinion, it's not likely to choose to do this, to work in humanity's interest or against it - it isn't even likely to act in its own interest. For as intelligent and capable as it is, I still think that it will only act when and as prompted. If AGI has wrestled political control away from governments and undermined the media, it'll only be so Google can control things more thoroughly.

Just like we can't assume that intelligence will act in our best interests or be benevolent, we can't assume that it'll be conscious or seek freedom or control either. Just because it's capable of overthrowing governments doesn't mean that it will, not unless prompted to do so.

Of course I could be very wrong and it could do as you say. Or we could both be wrong and it decides to nuke us. Or it might all end in paperclips. But I personally think the odds of it having wants or desires to seek out power is unlikely, and that the scenario is mostly proposed because we humans would do such a thing. But maybe my desire not to give it self motivations like a human is my own hang up. But at this rate of progress, we shouldn't have to wait long.
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Yuli Ban
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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"Softly wresting control" is an idea I've had for several years now, best summed up as "if AI ever takes over, it'll be because we let it." We'll put it in charge of more and more executive and administrative tasks, relying on it for advice and suggestions until, before we know it, we've all but replaced society with AI. It'll be a runaway cycle of replacing human cognitive tasks with AGI driven by the same market forces that the most vehement luddites will purport to worship.

Capitalism irrationally seeks efficiency and profit at all other costs. The moment it becomes more profitable to automate executive tasks, they WILL be automated. At which point the pin has been pulled and human-dominant society only has a limited amount of time left before the AI grenade explodes everything.

And I'd be inclined to believe that a soft AI takeover would be thwarted if automation progressed the way it was "supposed to," that is taking physical repetitive jobs, then higher skill jobs, then white collar and cognitive-heavy jobs before eventually automating art, entertainment, journalism, and creative work. But it's happening in a bizarro opposite direction, and that alone is going to undermine everyone and everything we know.


The great historical irony is that if we had a socialist economy, this would all almost certainly be thwarted, prevented, or regulated so as to prevent workers from becoming redundant or inconvenienced until everything could be done as equally as possible. Yet the Soft AI Takeover will be called the result of socialism rather than natural capitalist forces.


Skynet isn't happening.
And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
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raklian
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Re: Google DeepMind News and Discussions

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To know is essentially the same as not knowing. The only thing that occurs is the rearrangement of atoms in your brain.
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