France news and discussions
Re: France news and discussions
A bit (but explainable) ironic that the protests expected in Russia are happening there instead.
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Re: France news and discussions
France will deploy 40,000 police officers to quell violence that followed deadly police shooting
Source: AP
By SYLVIE CORBET and ALEX TURNBULL
Published 12:21 AM CDT, June 29, 2023
Source: AP
By SYLVIE CORBET and ALEX TURNBULL
Published 12:21 AM CDT, June 29, 2023
Read more: https://apnews.com/article/france-polic ... e3df03ec98NANTERRE, France (AP) — A French police officer who shot and killed a 17-year-old driver will be investigated for voluntary homicide, following two days of fires and violent protests that injured scores of officers, officials said Thursday.
Some 40,000 police officers will be deployed overnight to quell violence that engulfed cities and towns in the wake of the shooting.
The killing of 17-year-old Nahel during a traffic check Tuesday, captured on video, shocked the country and stirred up long-simmering tensions between young people and police in housing projects and other disadvantaged neighborhoods around France.
Protesters set cars and public buildings ablaze in Paris suburbs and unrest spread to some other French cities and towns.
Re: France news and discussions
The police need to be abolished. This stuff will keep happening until that happens. Radical! Unthinkable?! What solution does anyone from any other political persuasion but anarchism have to offer that has genuinely worked? Oversight committees are failures, body cameras don't seem to stop the problem, even when they provide proof cops have legal immunity. There are plenty of other liberal reforms that have been attempted and none of them work, our slide in authoritarianism continues.
So what comes after abolition if the institution is so rotten that it can't be fixed and must be completely dismantled? Two things, a splitting of roles and democratic nomination. Cops can't be expected to do all of the jobs they are tasked with well. The same people called to a violent crime like murder or assault shouldn't be handling mental health crises or interacting with petty civil disputes and ticketing.
At minimum a few new well funded and well trained jobs are needed, and these are just ones I can think of.
Unarmed mental health care workers who can respond to mental health crises. (Though trained in self defense and given self defense weapons like pepper spray and maybe civilian tasers.)
Traffic directors who do not have the ability to arrest. Infrastructure should be designed to disincentivize reckless driving and over reliance on cars anyways. Morover traffic directors would not ticket for petty offenses such as broken taillights or going 10mph over the speed limit. Their job would solely be to record and report reckless driving or inform a driver of something dangerously broken on their car.
Violent crime responders whose sole job it is to show up to violent crimes, attempt to deescalate and only as a last resort use force. These are the only people who need to be armed and even they don't need armored personnel carriers like modern police have. Any situation that requires an APC should warrant a military response not a civilian one.
There are probably more duties that can be split into different jobs too. Cops are expected to do way too much and often only trained to respond with force to everything with token training in anything else.
But this still doesn't solve the problem of sadists and psychopaths becoming part of a hypothetical violent crime response force, whatever we'd call them. I'll call them "public defenders" for the sake of brevity.
Public defender is not a position that anyone should be able to apply for. Instead a democratic nomination should take place. People in a community should have to nominate other people in their communities for the position and the position should generally be a temporary one served on terms like in the military. If people don't want the job there would have to be some kind of draft--though still with democratic nomination--something like how Switzerland runs their military/civil service.
The whole point of nomination and democratic approval by the community is that only people who are trusted by the community are permitted into the position. Anyone seeking individual power over others as a rule should be denied power, seeking power in of itself is a dangerous trait and one that should be actively discouraged by society. At the very least our peacekeeping forces cannot be allowed to be filled with actual psychopaths.
So what comes after abolition if the institution is so rotten that it can't be fixed and must be completely dismantled? Two things, a splitting of roles and democratic nomination. Cops can't be expected to do all of the jobs they are tasked with well. The same people called to a violent crime like murder or assault shouldn't be handling mental health crises or interacting with petty civil disputes and ticketing.
At minimum a few new well funded and well trained jobs are needed, and these are just ones I can think of.
Unarmed mental health care workers who can respond to mental health crises. (Though trained in self defense and given self defense weapons like pepper spray and maybe civilian tasers.)
Traffic directors who do not have the ability to arrest. Infrastructure should be designed to disincentivize reckless driving and over reliance on cars anyways. Morover traffic directors would not ticket for petty offenses such as broken taillights or going 10mph over the speed limit. Their job would solely be to record and report reckless driving or inform a driver of something dangerously broken on their car.
Violent crime responders whose sole job it is to show up to violent crimes, attempt to deescalate and only as a last resort use force. These are the only people who need to be armed and even they don't need armored personnel carriers like modern police have. Any situation that requires an APC should warrant a military response not a civilian one.
There are probably more duties that can be split into different jobs too. Cops are expected to do way too much and often only trained to respond with force to everything with token training in anything else.
But this still doesn't solve the problem of sadists and psychopaths becoming part of a hypothetical violent crime response force, whatever we'd call them. I'll call them "public defenders" for the sake of brevity.
Public defender is not a position that anyone should be able to apply for. Instead a democratic nomination should take place. People in a community should have to nominate other people in their communities for the position and the position should generally be a temporary one served on terms like in the military. If people don't want the job there would have to be some kind of draft--though still with democratic nomination--something like how Switzerland runs their military/civil service.
The whole point of nomination and democratic approval by the community is that only people who are trusted by the community are permitted into the position. Anyone seeking individual power over others as a rule should be denied power, seeking power in of itself is a dangerous trait and one that should be actively discouraged by society. At the very least our peacekeeping forces cannot be allowed to be filled with actual psychopaths.
Last edited by erowind on Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: France news and discussions
I'm not so sure if we'll ever have the collective foresight to put at least some of those into action without some form of aid by a higher intelligence. What you're proposing is very counterintuitive to conventional sensibilities but yet may work. That said, it may be something for which a certain type of AI may play a major role in the future. Ironically, it may need to be equipped with totalitarian tendencies to pull this off as there will be certain segments in the population who won't be willing to acquiesce due to having a mindset that is far out of alignment with the basic facts. In any case, it's going to be a very long, grueling road towards a society where there is acceptable equilibrium between competing philosophies and social norms which are naturally shaped by different experiences.erowind wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:41 am The police need to be abolished. This stuff will keep happening until that happens. Radical! Unthinkable?! What solution does anyone from any other political persuasion but anarchism have to offer that have genuinely worked? Oversight committees are failures, body cameras don't seem to stop the problem, even when they provide proof cops have legal immunity. There are plenty of other liberal reforms that have been attempted and none of them work, our slide in authoritarianism continues.
So what comes after abolition if the institution is so rotten that it can't be fixed and must be completely dismantled? Two things, a splitting of roles and democratic nomination. Cops can't be expected to do all of the jobs they are tasked with well. The same people called to a violent crime like murder or assault shouldn't be handling mental health crises or interacting with petty civil disputes and ticketing.
At minimum a few new well funded and well trained jobs are needed, and these are just ones I can think of.
To know is essentially the same as not knowing. The only thing that occurs is the rearrangement of atoms in your brain.
