R8Z wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:39 pmLook, maybe let's lower the weapons down and set the premises first so that we can debate without name calling each other:
Did I miss anything? What am I a denier of?
- You're correct, climate is changing (that's ok) BUT it's changing faster than we would expect (not ok);
- Most probably we've caused this increase in the rate of change for the climate and CO2 is big factor in that (not that it matters that 99% whatever agree)
- Most of the data we've had for climate predictions were junk (non-homogeneous, bad accuracy, tampered datasets) as it wasn't made for climate prediction but actually for weather. The data is still good enough on average to assess the above two points; it's not that the models aren't good, it's just that "junk in, junk out". We're getting better in this within the past few years (e.g. we ain't predicting global cooling anymore).
- Climate alarmism in the main-stream media continues to fuel divisive narratives while advocating for things like "less energy usage" and diminishing the quality of life for the average citizen to solve the climate. This won't do shit as the problem isn't even on the average joe. Whoever has done their reading knows that it rhymes perfectly with same alarmism that has been proven wrong time and time again.
- Science and technology has solved the above (food shortages) and will solve climate problems once there is enough reason and feasibility to do so.
Your citation does not apply. The argument is that 99.9% of climate scientists agree. These are people with expertise in the subject matter. So it is not just a “majority of the people agree.” It is that an overwhelming number of the experts who, having reviewed a vast amount of evidence available in their field, have all reached a broad agreement. Expert opinion is, among other things, admissible as evidence in a court of law.
I am not sure what planet you are living on to come to that conclusion, but there are all sorts of studies indicating 1) that the problem of food shortages has not been resolved, and 2) that climate change will worsen the problem, and 3) that existing technology is not and will not be enough to overcome the shortage problem, at least not in the short and medium run when many will suffer the consequences.same alarmism (a link discussing Malthusianism).
6. Science and technology has solved the above (food shortages) and will solve climate problems once there is enough reason and feasibility to do so.
Consider these citations of studies on this topic. The first comes from an article already cited in this thread.
Source: Eighty million more to starve: leaked U ... lnews.com)The forthcoming report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, obtained by AFP, offers a distressing vision of the decades to come.
Policy choices made now, such as promoting plant-based diets, can limit these health consequences, but many are unavoidable in the short term, the report says.
It warns of the cascading impacts that simultaneous crop failures, soaring inflation and the falling nutritional value of basic foods are likely to have on the world’s most vulnerable people
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It predicts that up to 80 million more people than today will be at risk of hunger by 2050 and that disruptions to the water cycle will cause rain-fed staple crops to decline throughout sub-Saharan Africa.
More on conclusions of the IPCC:
https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/Observed climate change is already affecting food security through increasing temperatures, changing precipitation patterns, and greater frequency of some extreme events (high confidence)
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Food security will be increasingly affected by projected future climate change (high confidence).
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Vulnerability of pastoral systems to climate change is very high (high confidence).
Here is a United Nations report that starts with a citation of the IPCC:
From Concern USA:In the next 30 years, food supply and food security will be severely threatened if little or no action is taken to address climate change and the food system's vulnerability to climate change. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the extent of climate change impacts on individual regions will vary over time, and different societal and environmental systems will have varied abilities to mitigate or adapt to change.
https://www.concernusa.org/story/climat ... 20systems.Since the early 1990s, the number of extreme weather-related disasters has doubled. This has reduced the yields of major crops and contributed to an increase in food prices and a decrease in income.
These disasters have also disproportionately harmed low-income people and their access to food, which is why we have chosen to focus on the connection between climate change and food security in the 2019 Global Hunger Index (GHI), prepared by Concern Worldwide and Welthungerhilfe. Sadly, this is not a trend that appears to be going away any time soon. Looking ahead, climate models predict higher average temperatures in most land and ocean regions, hotter extremes in many inhabited regions, and both heavy precipitation and an increasing probability of drought in some areas. These are all additional challenges for reducing hunger.
The United States Department of Agriculture:
https://www.usda.gov/oce/energy-and-env ... d-securityClimate change is likely to diminish continued progress on global food security through production disruptions that lead to local availability limitations and price increases, interrupted transport conduits, and diminished food safety, among other causes.
The Global Hunger Index:
https://www.globalhungerindex.org/issue ... /2019.htmlPreviously on the decline, the number of hungry people has been rising since 2015, a shift that the Food and Agriculture Organization has attributed to persistent instability in conflict-ridden regions, economic slowdowns in more peaceful regions, and adverse climate events (FAO 2018b).
Food production is likely to fall in response to higher temperatures, water scarcity, greater CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, and extreme events such as heat waves, droughts, and floods. Already, yields of major food crops such as maize and wheat are declining owing to extreme events, epidemics of plant diseases, and declining water resources. In semi-arid regions, 80 percent or more of year-to-year variation in cereal production can be attributed to climate variability (FAO et al. 2018). In Africa, the relationship between production and various aspects of climate, such as rainfall patterns or temperature, is much more complex, showing high regional variation and demanding location-specific adaptation measures.
Sea-level rise poses a particular risk to food security on small islands, in low-lying coastal areas, and in river deltas. Not only are large populations exposed, but given the high productivity of deltas, such as the Mekong Delta, which accounts for 50 percent of Viet Nam’s national rice production, any change in production patterns would have a substantial impact on food availability and the national economy (Gommes et al. 1998).
The Center for Strategic and International Studies:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/climate-c ... gile-worldThe impacts of climate change threaten a complex global food system that is already struggling to meet the needs of a growing and changing population. After great progress over the last decade, the number of chronically hungry people around the world has grown in each of the last three years. Today, 821 million people—one in nine—are undernourished. These people experience a shortage of food each day, while over twice that number face moderate food insecurity and frequently compromise on the quality or quantity of food they consume.
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Slow economic recovery from the 2008 global financial crisis (and food price spikes) and the increasing frequency and magnitude of climate-related extreme events have helped reverse years of progress fighting global hunger.
Concern Worldwide U.S.:
How climate change threatens food secur ... rnusa.org)Since the early 1990s, the number of extreme weather-related disasters has doubled. This has reduced the yields of major crops and contributed to an increase in food prices and a decrease in income.
These disasters have also disproportionately harmed low-income people and their access to food, which is why we have chosen to focus on the connection between climate change and food security in the 2019 Global Hunger Index (GHI), prepared by Concern Worldwide and Welthungerhilfe. Sadly, this is not a trend that appears to be going away any time soon. Looking ahead, climate models predict higher average temperatures in most land and ocean regions, hotter extremes in many inhabited regions, and both heavy precipitation and an increasing probability of drought in some areas. These are all additional challenges for reducing hunger.