Ukraine War Watch Thread

[caltrek]

Tech Companies Cut Ties with Russia over Ukraine Invasion
by Matthew Renda
March 2, 2022

https://www.courthousenews.com/tech-com ... -invasion/

Introduction:

(Courthouse News) — Silicon Valley is taking its gadgets out of Russia as more companies joined the exodus over Vladimir Putin's globally unpopular invasion of Ukraine.

Oracle announced it would cease operations in Russia on Wednesday, becoming the latest major technology company in America to discontinue operations in the country that invaded its sovereign neighbor this past week.

“On behalf of Oracle’s 150,000 employees around the world and in support of both the elected government of Ukraine and for the people of Ukraine, Oracle Corporation has already suspended all operations in the Russian Federation,” the company said in a tweet responding to Mykalia Fedorov, the vice prime minister of Ukraine.

The news came a day after Apple said it would end all product sales in Russia in response to the Ukrainian invasion.

"Last week, we stopped all exports into our sales channel in the country,” Apple said in a statement. “Apple Pay and other services have been limited. RT News and Sputnik News are no longer available for download from the App Store outside Russia. And we have disabled both traffic and live incidents in Apple Maps in Ukraine as a safety and precautionary measure for Ukrainian citizens."

The article goes on to explain some of the inconveniences that some Russians will face due to these actions.

caltrek's comment: "RT News and Sputnik News are no longer available for download from the App Store outside Russia." I would have preferred commentary from full time fact checkers that would accompany RT and Sputnick News. I guess that is just not in the business model of these for-profit corporations.

Come to think of it, the way things have been going lately, a full-time fact checker for this forum would also be nice. In the absence of such a capacity, I would recommend that people do a more careful job of fact checking their own posts. Especially from obscure sources from Twitter and Facebook. At least a heads up that the source quoted may not be trustworthy would be nice.

[andmar74]

Ukraine is going to be tough to beat with a constant stream of new fighters, and supplies of ammunition and weapons arriving from the EU and USA.

[caltrek]

^^^Ms Bertrand is identified as a CNN reporter.

[weatheriscool]

[weatheriscool]

[wjfox]

[wjfox]

[weatheriscool]

Top Russian general is killed by Ukrainian sniper as Kyiv claims 9,000 of Putin’s troops have died during invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -died.html

A top Russian general has been killed amid bitter fighting in Ukraine in what represents a major blow to the Russian invasion.

Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, who was the deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of Russia's Central Military District, died yesterday as Ukrainian defence forces repelled the Russian offensive.

His death has not yet been officially confirmed by Russia's Ministry of Defence, but was announced on social media by his colleague Sergey Chipilyov and was widely reported by several Russian and Ukrainian news outlets.

A military source confirmed that he was killed 'by a sniper', and suggested a funeral for the Major General - by far the most senior Russian figure to have died in the conflict thus far - will be held in Russia on Saturday.

After days of denial, the Kremlin yesterday admitted that 498 of its troops have been killed and 1,600 injured in the 'special military operation' in Ukraine, but the true figure is almost certainly higher.

Ukraine's armed forces meanwhile claimed today that Russia's army had suffered 9,000 casualties - though the statement recognised that the calculation of the death toll 'is complicated by the high intensity of hostilities'.

[caltrek]

Ukraine is going to be tough to beat with a constant stream of new fighters, and supplies of ammunition and weapons arriving from the EU and USA.

In addition to a stream of fighters from outside Ukraine, there is also this:

https://time.com/6154068/ukrainian-citi ... an-troops/

Extract:

(Time) While one million Ukranians have already fled to neighboring states for safety, others have enlisted in the Territorial Defense Forces (TDF), which organizes Ukraine’s militias. Some received combat training, with bank employees and teachers learning how to use AK-style assault rifles. Those who aren’t prepared for combat have taken on other tasks, like weaving camouflage nets to hide Ukrainian artillery from Russian reconnaissance. Some transformed their homes into makeshift sites for manufacturing molotov cocktails. Volunteers dug trenches and barricades to guard against attacks.
...
The government in Kyiv launched the TDF earlier this year, comprising 25 locally organized brigades (one per region) split into 150 battalions (one per administrative district). Around 10,000 full-time soldiers will make up the core of the force, but Ukraine hopes to recruit 1.5 million to 2 million people. Thousands of Ukrainians are already signing up to help defend their country from Russian invaders.

To win, Russia may well need to draft more of its citizens to enlarge its armed forces so that it is not overmatched in the Ukraine. It may always have an advantage in tanks and aircraft, but anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons that are coming into Ukraine will offset that advantage.

I am still rooting for a negotiated settlement that will come soon before the carnage takes more lives on both sides. Problem is that I can't see Putin being willing to lose face by scaling back on his demands. So, yes, we may be back to a coup situation to take care of that problem. I have no guess as to when such a coup might occur and, yes, Putin may die of old age while still in office.

In any case, Putin is proving the lyrics to the song that goes:

War
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing

[caltrek]

After Call with Putin, Macron Convinced That ‘the Worst is Yet to Come’ and that Russia Wants to Take All of Ukraine
by Rick Noack
March 3, 2022

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/af ... uxbndlbing

Extract::

(MSN) PARIS — Russian President Vladimir Putin called French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday, in what appeared to have been a markedly more tense exchange than previous conversations between the two leaders.

The 90-minute call failed to deliver a diplomatic breakthrough, and a senior French official said it left Macron convinced that “the worst is yet to come” and that Putin aims to take control of all of Ukraine.
…
“Attempts to gain time by dragging negotiations will only lead to additional requirements for Kyiv in our negotiating position,” Putin told Macron, according to the readout.
…
In his speech, Macron had also said Putin’s claims that he wants to “denazify” Ukraine are “a lie” and “an insult to the history of Russia and Ukraine, to the memory of our elders who fought side by side against Nazism.”
…
“Maintaining dialogue to avoid human tragedies is absolutely necessary,” Macron tweeted Thursday. “I will continue my efforts and outreach. We must avoid the worst.”

[Xyls]

Russia has shelled the Zaporizhzhia plant starting a fire...

[Cyber_Rebel]

So much for quitting my alcoholism this year. I really don't see this as a good idea in any way even if Ukraine's energy sector is a major military target. Seems almost like Russia (i.e., Putin) wants NATO involvement from any potential meltdown or fallout.

[weatheriscool]

ENERHODAR, Ukraine — Russian troops are shelling Europe’s largest nuclear power station in Ukraine.

“We demand that they stop the heavy weapons fire,” Andriy Tuz, spokesperson for the plant in Enerhodar, said in a video posted on Telegram. “There is a real threat of nuclear danger in the biggest atomic energy station in Europe.”

The plant accounts for about one quarter of Ukraine’s power generation.

The fighting at Enerhodar, a city on the Dnieper River that accounts for one-quarter of the country’s power generation, came as another round of talks between the two sides yielded a tentative agreement to set up safe corridors inside Ukraine to evacuate citizens and deliver humanitarian aid.

The mayor of Enerhodar said Ukrainian forces were battling Russian troops on the city’s outskirts. Video showed flames and black smoke rising above the city of more than 50,000, with people streaming past wrecked cars, just a day after the U.N. atomic watchdog agency expressed grave concern that the fighting could cause accidental damage to Ukraine’s 15 nuclear reactors.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 0afd06b4be

[weatheriscool]

[R8Z]

The Ministry of Finance supported the abolition of VAT on gold bars for individuals
Text: Anastasia Selivanova

Gold should become an alternative to investments in foreign currency, and in order to increase the demand for the precious metal in Russia, it would be logical to abolish VAT on its purchase from banks. This was stated by the Minister of Finance Anton Siluanov.

https://rg.ru/2022/03/02/minfin-podderz ... izlic.html

---

With their economy collapsing and their fake money evaporating, Russians are rushing to find any meaningful storage of value. Government took note and it seems it is giving hints to a return to the gold standard. First positive out of this insane mess? Note that it seems it hasn't take effect yet so it might be just words in the wind so far. Maybe a fellow ruskie from the forum could shine some light onto this situation from their perspective.

[Yuli Ban]

[R8Z]

Reading comments in ria.ru scares me. It's really a different perspective. Should we listen?

Google translate link (blue discussion button at the bottom of the article): https://ria-ru.translate.goog/20220303/ ... r_pto=wapp

[erowind]

.

[Maximus]

Reading comments in ria.ru scares me. It's really a different perspective. Should we listen?

Google translate link (blue discussion button at the bottom of the article): https://ria-ru.translate.goog/20220303/ ... r_pto=wapp

The way I see it, no. There is a right and wrong here, despite Russian attempts to blur the situation. Remember, all of Russian media and their politicians spent weeks lying to the world about their buildup on Ukraine's borders, calling everyone paranoid for saying they were planning to invade. These people are coming from the viewpoint, as put by Putin, that "Ukraine shouldn't exist as a country". They make absurd claims that Ukrainians are led by neo-nazis, and they actually want to be invaded and "liberated". Most recently, they even tried to justify the invasion by saying they have to stop Ukraine from trying to develop nuclear weapons. They are not arguing in good faith, but rather from a ultranationalist perspective, and thus should not be trusted at any turn.

I'm sure to get hit with whataboutism, concerning Western media, about some time or other it carried the government's line. Maybe Iraq. Despite its faults, Western media is not subservient to the government. Eventually the truth will out. It didn't take long at all for reporters in the West to begin hounding the US government about its allegations of WMDs in Iraq, and calling it an outright lie. Hell, Watergate resulted in the removal of an actual president. You don't get that in Russia. There is one truth, one party line, and all these media outlets are sticking to it. And thus most of the populace is only ever exposed to one viewpoint, with no dissenting voices (unless they actively seek it from foreign media).

[Maximus]

I don't think the Russian people deserve a 2nd round of "shock capitalism."

I feel so much empathy for what they've gone through this past century. First the Tsar, then the Bolsheviks, then WWII, then a few decades of stability and woops here comes neoliberalism and endless austerity as everything gets gutted. Now people who haven't read the history, who haven't lived the experience, who have rampantly consumed the media produced for them are advocating a 5th round of hell for the Russian people. And it is the people that will suffer predominately, not the oligarchs.

Has anyone ever noticed how stable some of the countries under US sanctions are? How nationalism can be ignited by the presence of an enemy inflicting genuine harm on a country? Where have US sanctions worked to end the reign of autocrats? The DPRK still exists and it's been nearly 70 years. Cuba chugs along despite the blockade. Iran has remained relatively stable through decades of rhetoric to the contrary. Support for Gaddafi in Libya only waned after the sanctions were lifted. How will Russia be any different? How are people so sure, so eager, at the idea of inflicting more pain on working people? What monsters will be created by that course of action? Nomatter how things started how does more aggression not make the situation that much worse? Is it not an acute form of madness?

And to the Russians in the room, or any caught up in that governments own rhetoric, isn't there another course? What other solutions to NATO's aggression might exist outside the realm of war?

/\ This is directed at both sides. I have seen nationalism on display rearing its ugly despicable head in many of the posts in this thread. I implore everyone to look at themselves in the mirror and really think about what things have been said, what empathy has been granted selectively, what the consequences of further escalation are.

Aww, the poor Russian invaders. Yeah... it's clearly the fault of those nasty, oppressive NATO members. That Putin seems like a nice man. We should just let Russia take over and own an entire sovereign nation, without any consequences, because that's a totally normal thing to do in the 21st century.

E:
"Calls attention and nuance to history of Russia, and Ukraine for that matter as it was part of the empire and USSR."
"Makes factual statements on the effects of sanctions in terms of humanitarian costs and effectiveness as strategic policy."
"Makes a universal condemnation of war between states"
"Calls upon Russian nationalists to consider another course"
"Calls on all to examine the application of selective empathy"
"Calls on all to consider the consequences of escalating war between nation states"
X:
Conflates E's nuance with Russian apologism, failing to read the post accurately, thus, proving the point of 2 minutes hate reference

You make some good points Erowind. I do feel empathy for what the Russian people have suffered at the hands of dictators and external events. I do think a grave mistake was made with Russia after the USSR collapsed. I don't know the exact history of what the West did at that time, but every effort should have been made to befriend and help bring Russia into the community of nations, such as into the EU. Were these efforts doomed to fail? Perhaps. All I can say now is that it's clear we should have done more at every turn, for the peace of this world.

I also agree with your assessment of the effect these sanctions will have. No they will not result in some kind of revolution. They will only harden people's hearts and make them dig in deeper, if they already view the West with hate. As you say, look at Iran, Cuba, or North Korea. But what else can we do? The world cannot sit by and allow Russia to invade Ukraine without a single consequence. Short of a military response, this is the only other option. And for humanity's sake, let's hope a military option continues to be unthinkable.

I can also see where WjFox is coming from. The fact is, Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Russia is making threats to other Eastern European countries, not the other way around. The callousness it has shown in sending its military to shell Ukrainian cities has dragged Europe back 83 years. You are appealing to both sides to be reasonable and empathetic, while one side has already rejected those concepts in favour of hate and violence.