Ukraine War Watch Thread

Xyls
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by Xyls »

funkervogt wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:47 pm Russian forces probably blew up the dam to create a flood that would temporarily block the Ukrainian offensive. The act also did major, long-lasting damage to the agricultural potential of southern Ukraine and Crimea. That might indicate that the Russians have so little faith in their ability to hold on to the region that their best option is to wreck it before Ukraine takes it over.

It's actually worse than this over the long run for Russia. They also flooded out their positions and lost a lot of manpower as well. Considering once water levels recede it may be very easy for Ukraine to actually push into Kherson now. Yeah, they get a month's worth of time, but this is probably more a political consideration for the Kremlin as right now they are trying to extend this conflict as long as possible because the Putin regime is not sure how it can lose the war and sustain political stability at home.

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-f ... 00784.html

This is an own-goal in the long run, and goes to show the short term thinking inside the Kremlin right now. There is no master plan for the area. And as we saw with the US in Afghanistan/Iraq. When you don't have an endgame in mind you will eventually lose.
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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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Yeah, he only makes two types of arguments: 1) "What about when the U.S./West did it, too?" and 2) "How can you prove your claim/source is accurate?"

They're low-quality types of arguments, but sometimes he still makes valid points. Keep in mind Ukraine puts out propaganda every day, and Western news outlets have a pro-Ukraine bias. It's useful to have someone around to at least make us stop and think about what our primary sources of info are claiming before we accept them.
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Cyber_Rebel
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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funkervogt wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:41 pm ibm9000 doesn't offer the strongest arguments, but I think it's important to have at least one person on the forum who stands for Russia's side. We can't get caught in a pro-Ukraine echo chamber.
@Erowind doesn't really argue for Russia's side, but they have a more unique anti-war approach to the whole situation which is more about non-escalation and opposing propaganda in any of its forms. (I see that you mention the latter as a concern in your recent post)

I may not always agree with Erowind in regard to this conflict, but I think that opinion is more meaningful and at least better argued than the Russo fascist perspective. Granted, I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread for a while, but the few posts I've read from the Hal-9000 poster have indeed been some cryptic gaslighting.
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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by funkervogt »

It's actually worse than this over the long run for Russia. They also flooded out their positions and lost a lot of manpower as well.
It's still to early to say how many people on both sides died. The Russians have had major problems with communication and coordination between their own units, and some of them hate each other. A failure to warn all the downstream units about the dam being blown up in advance would be entirely within character for the Russian forces. The lives of the Wagner troops are valued the least of all.
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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by funkervogt »

A major ammonia pipeline in a Russian-controlled area of Ukraine was blown up, releasing huge quantities of the poisonous gas. Both sides blame the other.
The pipeline stopped operating after Moscow sent troops to Ukraine in February 2022.

The resumption of Russia's ammonia exports through the link is one of Moscow's conditions to continue with the grain export deal, which allows safe passage for Ukrainian grain shipments.
https://www.barrons.com/news/russia-acc ... y-96363315

This and the destruction of the Kakhovka dam will reduce global food production.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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Again, the Russians almost certainly blew up the dam.
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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by funkervogt »

Though Ukraine's government is still silent on the matter, multiple Ukrainian, Russian, and U.S. sources say the Ukrainian counteroffensive started last night. Ukraine launched major attacks in three different parts of the Russian frontlines.
weatheriscool
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by weatheriscool »

CNN:Ukrainian forces suffer 'stiff resistance' and losses in assault on Russian lines
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/08/politics ... index.html
Ukrainian forces have suffered losses in heavy equipment and soldiers as they met greater than expected resistance from Russian forces in their first attempt to breach Russian lines in the east of the country in recent days, two senior US officials tell CNN.

One US official described the losses – which include US supplied MRAP armored personnel vehicles as “significant.”

Ukrainian forces managed to overrun some Russian forces in the east around Bakhmut. However, Russian forces, armed with anti-tank missiles, grenades and mortars, have put up “stiff resistance,” with their forces dug into defensive lines that are several layers deep in some areas and marked by minefields that have taken a heavy toll on Ukrainian armored vehicles.
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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