Ukraine War Watch Thread

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raklian
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by raklian »

ibm9000 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
It's basically signalling to
Or not and it's politics, Putin basically signalling stop messing with my war.
Putin knows we're going to "mess" with his war no matter what he does. Heck, he even knows it is in our interest to do so for the sake of maintaining our sphere of influence. And that's what we've been doing since the whole thing started, so the "bluff" is more of Putin warning us not to make it any worse than it already has. Well, that's totally up to him. If he escalates, we escalate too, which is precisely what we're warning him.
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andmar74
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by andmar74 »

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-russ ... ?r=US&IR=T
US says it told the Kremlin that Russia will face 'catastrophic consequences' if it uses tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine
I wonder what they told the Russians.
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caltrek
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by caltrek »

raklian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:46 pm
ibm9000 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
It's basically signalling to
Or not and it's politics, Putin basically signalling stop messing with my war.
Putin knows we're going to "mess" with his war no matter what he does. Heck, he even knows it is in our interest to do so for the sake of maintaining our sphere of influence. And that's what we've been doing since the whole thing started, so the "bluff" is more of Putin warning us not to make it any worse than it already has. Well, that's totally up to him. If he escalates, we escalate too, which is precisely what we're warning him.
Yes. What I worry about that may be missing is what are metaphorically referred to as "offramps." Ways of letting Putin walk away from the situation with a minimum of damage to himself politically. Not that he doesn't deserve to be removed from office. More for the sake of avoiding World War III. I am not sure if he ever used the word "offramps", but that is also pretty much the sort of thing Naom Chomsky worries about. Not that Chomsky does not consider Putin's actions to not be criminal, or that Ukraine should have capitulated to earlier demands made by Putin.

My very first boss in my post graduate professional career gave me a very important pointer. When negotiating with a potential political rival, always keep them from feeling cornered. Always give them a way out so that they can save face. Emotionally, many of us may want to see Putin hung from a tree while he dies an agonizing death because of his criminal behavior. Still, to avoid World War III...
Last edited by caltrek on Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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raklian
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by raklian »

andmar74 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:52 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/us-russ ... ?r=US&IR=T
US says it told the Kremlin that Russia will face 'catastrophic consequences' if it uses tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine
I wonder what they told the Russians.
It's what a $800 billion defense budget allows us to do, I suppose. :?

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Cyber_Rebel
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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raklian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:14 pm It's what a $800 billion defense budget allows us to do, I suppose. :?
The UAPs which the United States claims is not theirs, laser weapons, railguns, and other "top secret" futuristic weaponry will finally be deployed. It's possible that once research has been advanced enough, nuclear war clould be at least mitigated in its scope. I'd hope so at least.
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raklian
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by raklian »

caltrek wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:08 pm
raklian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:46 pm
ibm9000 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm



Or not and it's politics, Putin basically signalling stop messing with my war.
Putin knows we're going to "mess" with his war no matter what he does. Heck, he even knows in our interest to do so for the sake of maintaining our sphere of influence. And that's what we've been doing since the whole thing started, so the "bluff" is more of Putin warning us not to make it any worse than it already has. Well, that's totally up to him. If he escalates, we escalate too, which is precisely what we're warning him.
Yes. What I worry about that may be missing is what are metaphorically referred to as "offramps." Ways of letting Putin walk away from the situation with a minimum of damage to himself politically. Not that he doesn't deserve to be removed from office. More for the sake of avoiding World War III. I am not sure if he ever used the word "offramps", but that is also pretty much the sort of thing Naom Chomsky worries about. Not that Chomsky does not consider Putin's actions to not be criminal, or that Ukraine should have capitulated to earlier demands made by Putin.

My very first boss in my post graduate professional career gave me a very important pointer. When negotiating with a potential political rival, always keep them from feeling cornered. Always give them a way out so that they can save face. Emotionally, many of us may want to see Putin hung from a tree while he dies an agonizing death because of his criminal behavior. Still, to avoid World War III...
What I'm more afraid of is we inadvertently make a series of decisions which lead to the kind of world where we tolerate deploying nukes on a limited scale without facing as much backlash as we do now. I'm thinking the country that manages to finally deploy a respectable laser defense system capable of thwarting most nuclear attacks will feel more justified in using its own nukes. We need to somehow avoid that at any costs because it is truly a slippery slope from there.
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weatheriscool
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by weatheriscool »

Ukraine Downs 12 Russian Aircraft, Boosting Battlefield Pressure on Moscow
Source: Wall Street Journal
KYIV—Ukraine dealt Russia’s Air Force some of its heaviest blows in months over the weekend, shooting down four war planes and eight Iranian-made drones that Russia has recently deployed, Ukrainian officials said, highlighting the losses Russians are taking as they try to boost control of the air.

The Ukrainian strikes follow some of the biggest gains by Kyiv since the start of the war and maintain Ukraine’s momentum on the battlefield. The losses raised the number of Russian planes downed to about 60 since the start of the invasion.

Russia’s Iranian-made drones attacked Odessa, a historic port city on the Black Sea, early Sunday. No one was hurt and one of the drones was shot down by air defenses, Ukraine’s southern command said.
Ukraine’s Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ignat said

Ukrainian forces had shot down eight drones in the past 24 hours using small arms and air-defense systems. He said four Il-76 transport planes had flown to Russia carrying shipments of the Iranian drones, including the Shahed-136, which is used as a “suicide” drone to attack targets.
Read more: https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ukrain ... 1664103886
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ibm9000
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by ibm9000 »

Putin knows we're going to ...
Yes, we have been doing that from the very beginning, what I don't know is what anybody is messing behind the scenes.
Is Ukraine our sphere of influence?, since when?, Belarus too?, what about Iran?
We escalate?, you are happily walking into WW3 and I am not quite sure about that of "Russia will suffer"... only Russia?
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raklian
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by raklian »

ibm9000 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:18 pm
Putin knows we're going to ...
We escalate?, you are happily walking into WW3 and I am not quite sure about that of "Russia will suffer"... only Russia?
Well, we've been telling them they will face "horrific" consequences if they use a nuke. Make of it what you will. I'm not even sure what that involves except they privately told Moscow specifically what the consequences are. I wonder why they told them in private rather than public. Maybe it's not to cause a panic?
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raklian
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

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The dude on the bench...

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