Ukraine War Watch Thread

[ibm9000]

> You implied...
Did I? I do imply that governments do "stuff" and lie about it; we did agree on that.

> hard for me to understand...
As above.

> Do u now wish...
Now?, you have been missing a lot.

> Personally no...
There is a faction in Putin's government that wants a change of direction, the elimination of (her father) is a way to achieve that goal. Is that a possibility?
Somebody in the Ukrainian Intelligence thought that the elimination of (her father) will open useful negotiations, with or without orders acted on that premise. Is that a possibility?
A group from... Chechnya/China/US... is trying to create more chaos. Is that a possibility?

I have no information about the operation, but the information to carry it out seems a bit harder to get.
We will get details about it in... 50 years? How truthful are going to be any leaks by Russia, Ukraine or US?
Also, I haven't seen many years for the victim of that terrorist attack; not for those in Kabul: hypocrisy?

> completely endorse...
I disagree.

"Ukrainian offensive"...
I am critical with every "quick" -and usually wrong and/or uninformed- interpretation.

The "reasons" behind have nothing to do with the validity of an argument; to accept what you "like" is called Confirmation Bias. What I have is doubts, but not about the use of the word "strategy" in a military sense, for example.

Hopefully, you will excuse me if I don't value highly your "credit", that of a whitewashed from my point of view.

[caltrek]

> You implied...
Did I? I do imply that governments do "stuff" and lie about it; we did agree on that.

Yes, but you reiterated that point while discussing a terrorist incident in Russia. In that context implying that the government statement in question was a lie, and that the government was therefore involved despite their denial. Further, you deleted my reference to the statement made by a Russian government spokesperson. I also made other recent Russian government references to statements regarding shooting down of drones. No comments about governments lying or distorting the news in that instance either. Really, a Russian government propogandist could not have done more to argue the case against Ukraine. Casting doubts on the Ukrainian government while giving the Russian government a free pass.

> Do u now wish...
Now?, you have been missing a lot.

First you can't remember what you said, now I "have been missing a lot." Noticeably absent is your failure to answer the simple question: do you now favor a negotiated settlement?

No need to comment on what I have "been missing." Just, please, answer the question.

> Personally no...
There is a faction in Putin's government that wants a change of direction, the elimination of (her father) is a way to achieve that goal. Is that a possibility?
Somebody in the Ukrainian Intelligence thought that the elimination of (her father) will open useful negotiations, with or without orders acted on that premise. Is that a possibility?
A group from... Chechnya/China/US... is trying to create more chaos. Is that a possibility?

Sure, why not? So, maybe the Ukrainian government spokesman was telling the truth.

[caltrek]

I have no information about the operation, but the information to carry it out seems a bit harder to get.
We will get details about it in... 50 years? How truthful are going to be any leaks by Russia, Ukraine or US?

Sure, now you write this, after implying that the Ukrainian government spokesperson was lying. Now you admit that maybe that spokesperson was being truthful.

No, actually, you haven't admitted that, but you do seem to have at least admitted that you do not know.

The "reasons" behind have nothing to do with the validity of an argument; to accept what you "like" is called Confirmation Bias. What I have is doubts, but not about the use of the word "strategy" in a military sense, for example.

If you can't even explain your reasons, then how in the hell are the rest of going to figure out what you believe. Especially in light of your continued habit of evading the answering of simple questions.

Do you now believe that the war should be resolved through a negotiated settlement?

Do you think Al Qaeda based in Afghanistan was involved in the attack of 9/11?

What more did you expect from the Ukrainian government spokesperson regarding the issue in question?

Not "what did you expect," but "what more did you expect"?

No answers from you, just continued evasions.

Meanwhile, all sorts of short citations in which the reader must infer or imply what you are trying to say, combined with complaints of what I have "been missing."

I am not a mind reader. I will not continue to construct your argument for you by extrapolating from your incomplete and incoherent thoughts. That is not a problem of "confirmation bias." That is a problem of poor communication of your argument. If you cannot present your argument in a coherent fashion, then what is there to agree or disagree with?

If all you have got is innuendo, then what does that say about your credibility?

When I cited the Ukrainian government spokesperson, I did not insist that his statement be taken as the final word on the subject. I simply pointed out an official position as articulated by that spokesperson. If you are not even willing, as initially seemed to be the case, to consider the situation from that point of view, then who is guilty of confirmation bias?

Edit: That some governments have lied on some occasions, does not mean that all governments lie on all occasions. There is a possibility of lying, there is also the possibility of telling the truth.

[caltrek]

Russian Security Service Accuses Ukraine of Darya Dugina's Murder
by Tim Lister, Uliana Pavlova and Lauren Said-Moorhouse
August 22, 2022
Introduction:

(CNN) (CNN)Russia has blamed Ukrainian special services for the murder of Darya Dugina, a Russian political commentator and the daughter of prominent ultranationalist ideologue Alexander Dugin, according to Russian state news agency TASS.

"The murder of journalist Darya Dugina has been solved, it was prepared by the Ukrainian special services, by a citizen of Ukraine," TASS reported, citing Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB), which named a woman as the perpetrator and said she had fled to Estonia after the attack.

Ukraine has denied any involvement in Dugina's killing, calling the FSB claims fiction.

Dugina, the editor of a Russian disinformation website, died after a bomb planted in a car she was driving went off in the outskirts of Moscow on Saturday evening.

Read more here: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/22/europe/ ... ndex.html

caltrek’s comment: More fog of war with both sides blaming each other. Note that CNN quotes both governments for their respective positions on the matter.

[weatheriscool]

Russians blame Ukrainian woman for car bomb near Moscow that killed Putin ally
Source: USA Today

The car bomb that killed hardline TV commentator Daria Dugina near Moscow was the work of a Ukrainian woman who fled to Estonia after the blast, state-run Russian news agencies reported Monday.

"The crime was prepared and committed by the Ukrainian special services," Tass said in a Telegram post Monday.

-snip-

Russian security services said suspect Natalia Vovk arrived in Moscow a month ago with her daughter and rented an apartment in the building Dugina lived in. On the day of the blast, Vovk and Shaban attended the literary and music festival Tradition, where Dugina was an honorary guest. After the remote-controlled explosion, Vovk and her daughter fled through the Pskov Region to Estonia, the security services said.

Saturday was Estonia's Restoration of Independence Day, marking 31 years since the end of Russia's occupation of the nation of 1.3 million people.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... =AAZPON3|9

[weatheriscool]

Area near Ukraine nuclear plant hit again despite US pleas
Source: AP

By HANNA ARHIROVA

NIKOPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Russian shelling across the river from Ukraine’s main nuclear power plant wounded four people Monday, an official said, hours after the latest international pleas to spare the area from attacks to prevent a catastrophe.

Meanwhile, Russia blamed Ukrainian spy agencies for the car bombing on the outskirts of Moscow over the weekend that killed the daughter of a far-right Russian political thinker and ardent supporter of the invasion of Ukraine.

On the battleground, the city of Nikopol, about 10 kilometers (six miles) downstream from the Zaporizhzhya nuclear plant, came under fire three times overnight from rockets and mortar shells. Houses, a kindergarten, a bus station and stores were hit, authorities said.

Mayor Oleksandr Saiuk said four people were wounded, and two of them were hospitalized.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 029ecc257d

[raklian]

[wjfox]

[ibm9000]

I am not a mind reader...

Yes, you are. Every time you say that "I imply" that is exactly what you are doing. What do you know about me?, you've got an impression based on a few posts, that's all.

Yes, but...

No, that is what you imply based on your experience, on your opinion, on your knowledge. You do not know what -if- I imply. Use your imagination to create a second implication, then a third and then explain to yourself why the second is valid but not the third. You create the implication you want, the one you like, that one you are comfortable with.

First you can't remember...

I don't have to remember, it has been written down. I haven't seen you telling us about your tears ("years" in the post) for her, you forgot to answer that one? This is a forum, I will give my opinion about what I want, I will answer what I want, as you do.
Did I sign any agreement to answer every question?, are you going to invade my home if you don't get what you want? Flip a coin, if you just want that y/n, flip a coin, is going to be as relevant.
Yes, I do understand that to maintain a conversation we need some answers and more questions about then. Hopefully, you understand this is a forum, not a thesis and I am not here to humour you.

An argument -opinions here- is valid on its own merit.
Explaining my reasons is irrelevant -and I don't have to if you graciously allow me; us?-, what I believe -really unfortunate word you used-, my weight, the colour of my skin carry little wight; none, actually. It is valid or not, how many likes it got and if you like it is irrelevant.


There are two options -(The enemy will take the fourth)- the government is going to make no comment or deny. I expect the "I dindn't do it", because that is what they do, that is why the reference to the R. Warrior. The statement itself is irrelevant, the government is not going to acknowledge a terrorist attack; unless you are the US government but then you call it something else.

There is a possibility of lying, there is also the possibility of telling the truth.

Such wisdom says a lot about... the credulity of everybody around here?

Zelensky is an idiot.
Two days after the invasion, meaningful negotiations should have been started. After the fall of Mariupol, that was a great opportunity for meaningful negotiations, Russia won a victory but it had to pay for it. Russia has the winning hand -if you care to look at the map-, Zelensky has to use his card, he has to start negotiating so US and Turkey and whoever can start offering trinkets.

The story goes that, after the failed counterattack they called von Runsted about what to do: Make peace, you idiots!
Make peace, you idiot! This is my statement, this is my opinion. Do I imply Putin is smart?: whatever you want, honey. All the implications are yours, not mine.


(If you want me to use more words, you have been using far to many words to say just that).

[ibm9000]

So, to recap

About... "quick" interpretation:

40+ dead...

Have you identify all of them?
Where is the Ukrainian economy?

In the process...

and that is going to take how long?, are you sure we are going to end the process?, we are not going to go back to business?, sure?

Ukraine enjoys...

for how long?

Assassinations in Moscow...

is that something new?; anyway, they seem to be doing as good as London, Paris, Madrid and Bruxelles... not to mention US.