Ukraine War Watch Thread

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ibm9000
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by ibm9000 »

That's the point. It doesn't matter what country does what,
No.
That is exactly my point, in another post I wrote: "Evil is evil" and somebody here is whitewashing some evil.
That is hypocrisy.
Vakanai
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by Vakanai »

ibm9000 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:14 pm
That's the point. It doesn't matter what country does what,
No.
That is exactly my point, in another post I wrote: "Evil is evil" and somebody here is whitewashing some evil.
That is hypocrisy.
Who is white washing what history?
weatheriscool
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by weatheriscool »

As Many as 80,000 Russian Forces Killed, Wounded in Ukraine: Pentagon
Source: U S News and World Report
Russia has endured as many as 80,000 casualties since President Vladimir Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine in February, according to the latest assessment from the Pentagon of the steep costs Moscow has paid.

Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl told reporters on Monday that the number of Russian soldiers killed or wounded in the fighting is somewhere between 70,000 and 80,000. Kahl, effectively the No. 3 civilian at the Pentagon, added that the number “is pretty remarkable given that Russia has achieved none of Vladimir Putin’s objectives in Ukraine.”
Read more: https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... e-pentagon
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ibm9000
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by ibm9000 »

Who is white washing what history?
Sorry, on what page did you started reading this thread?
Again, the importance of counting the number of corpses.
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caltrek
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by caltrek »

ibm9000 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:35 am
Who is white washing what history?
Sorry, on what page did you started reading this thread?
Again, the importance of counting the number of corpses.
Are you suggesting that there is an absolute moral equivalence between killing one person and killing a million persons? Even when that one person is in the process of engaging in mass murder, and that the million are largely innocent civilians?

If objections to that logic constitutes "white washing" then we must agree to disagree.

What sounds like white washing to me is to deny that the United States was ever attacked by Al Qaeda on 9/11.

What next? Perhaps that the United States was not attacked by the Japanese government at Pearl Harbor? That the holocaust never took place? That the genocidal events of the Holodomor never took place?

Yes, the United States government under George W. Bush lied about WMD in Iraq. Which is why I opposed that invasion. I also voted twice for political opponents of Bush when he ran for president. Bush was a horrible president, and I am glad that he retired from office fourteen years ago. I am also grateful that journalist organs such as The Nation pointed out that the government was lying in advance of that invasion. Often friendly to Russia, The Nation has condemned Russia's invasion of the Ukraine. So, my sources of information are not confined to handouts from the U.S. government. There are other observers on the scene. If they conclude that the Ukrainian government is using civilians as human shields, then that government should be called out on that and criticized for that action.

Criticizing from a place of denial and from a place of white washing history only undermines your argument.

Leaders change. Policies change. Situations change.

This thread is about the war in the Ukraine. Yet you seem obsessed with talking about just about anything but that war. Sometimes in an effort that looks very much like a white washing of history. If not white washing, then at least denial and a profound and willful ignorance of what is going on. Failing to count the corpses is a form of such denialism. If you want to oppose support for the Ukraine for whatever reason. Fine, go ahead and do so. But please, let us not deny the basic facts. Russia launched and unprovoked act of aggression upon the Ukraine. Civilian populations have apparently been targeted in that invasion. In a way that goes beyond collateral damage while targeting military targets.

In my opinion, at least, Putin is proceeding with genocidal policies toward the Ukraine, posing an existential threat to Ukrainians. Again, if you disagree with that opinion, or somehow thinks it constitutes white washing, then we must agree to disagree.
Don't mourn, organize.

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ibm9000
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by ibm9000 »

Are you suggesting that there is an absolute moral equivalence between killing one person and killing a million persons? Even when that one person is in the process of engaging in mass murder, and that the million are largely innocent civilians?
or, maybe...

As a British officer said: What is the difference between throwing children into the fire or raining fire on top of children.

Killing 100 or 1.000, which one do you want to whitewash? -One 100 rapist or 1.000 choir boys maybe

Do you want to whitewash the Roman Empire too, or just the Republic? I am talking about what we do now, these Western Democracies; even if I am pretty sure somebody was whitewashing the British Empire -and the Roman Empire too.
Leaders change. Policies change. Situations change.

I do agree and friends change too -Noriega, Saddam-; and we keep doing the same, too.

By the way...
It seems that the Ukrainian Offensive was taken Lozove at the end of May and taking Davydid Brid at the end of July. I am guessing that in another couple of months they will take... Sevastopol.

Is not that we have that much to talk about, I'm afraid; even if it seems that the Ukrainian "offensive" is debilitating the Donestk defence, who could have imagined that!


Again, I don't argue, I don't deny, I ask you to talk to a teacher; and I guess you don't have to keep answering to this.
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ibm9000
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by ibm9000 »

Oh!, I forgot to mention, those 100 are part of the 1000, all rapist and murderers, exsoldiers-children from Africa... Cambodia?, well, somewhere.

Killing one human being is evil.

If, on the other hand, you think that [b]your[/b] opinion is the only thing...
that is a dangerous road. Specially when you are the judge, jury and executioner; hopefully you pass the sentence too.
Even when that one person is in the process of
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funkervogt
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by funkervogt »

More failed predictions about the War:
Russian President Vladimir Putin could formally declare war on Ukraine as soon as May 9, a move that would enable the full mobilization of Russia's reserve forces as invasion efforts continue to falter, US and Western officials believe.

May 9, known as "Victory Day" inside of Russia, commemorates the country's defeat of the Nazis in 1945. Western officials have long believed that Putin would leverage the symbolic significance and propaganda value of that day to announce either a military achievement in Ukraine, a major escalation of hostilities -- or both.
Officials have begun to hone in on one scenario, which is that Putin formally declares war on Ukraine on May 9. To date, Putin has insisted on referring to the brutal monthslong conflict as a "special military operation," effectively banning words such as invasion and war.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/03/europe/r ... index.html
An exiled former Russian lawmaker said that he is "certain" that Vladimir Putin will claim "an imaginary victory" in Ukraine early next month.

"Putin will try to claim a certain victory — an imaginary victory — on May 9. I am absolutely certain about this, but the reality is that he is losing the war," Ilya Ponomarev, who was exiled from Russia's parliament in 2016 and is now fighting alongside Ukrainian forces, told CNN host Jake Tapper on Wednesday night.
https://www.newsweek.com/exiled-russian ... th-1698023

Likewise, predictions that Putin will use nuclear weapons on Ukraine, that he is on the verge of being overthrown, that the Russian army is on the brink of collapse have fallen flat. In spite of rumors to the contrary, no evidence has surfaced that Putin is terminally ill.
Last edited by funkervogt on Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
weatheriscool
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by weatheriscool »

Explosions rock area of Russian airbase in Crimea
Source: CNN

(CNN) A series of large explosions went off in the area of a Russian military airbase in the annexed Ukrainian territory of Crimea on Tuesday, with footage from the scene showing large plumes of smoke billowing into the air.
The Russian defense ministry said the blasts had been caused by detonated aviation ammunition, Russian state media RIA Novosti reported.
"Around 3:20 p.m., several aviation munitions detonated on the territory of the airfield 'Saki' near the settlement of Novofedorivka," the ministry said in the statement, according to RIA Novosti.

Ambulance crews and an air ambulance were sent to the site of the explosions, according to the health ministry of the region.

Oleg Kryuchkov, adviser to the head of the Crimean region -- which Russia annexed from Ukraine in 2014 -- confirmed several explosions had occurred near the village of Novofedorivka. On his Telegram channel, Kryuchkov said: "So far, I can only confirm the fact of several explosions in the Novofedorivka area. I ask everyone to wait for official messages."
Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/europe/c ... index.html
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caltrek
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Re: Ukraine War Watch Thread

Post by caltrek »

ibm9000 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:41 pm Oh!, I forgot to mention, those 100 are part of the 1000, all rapist and murderers, exsoldiers-children from Africa... Cambodia?, well, somewhere.

Killing one human being is evil.

If, on the other hand, you think that [b]your[/b] opinion is the only thing...
that is a dangerous road. Specially when you are the judge, jury and executioner; hopefully you pass the sentence too.
Even when that one person is in the process of
From The Rebel* by Albert Camus, who is regarded by many as a great pacifist of the twentieth century:
In a flash - but that is time enough to say, provisionally, that the most extreme form of freedom, the freedom to kill, is not compatible with the sense of rebellion. Rebellion is in no way the demand for total freedom. It specifically attacks the unlimited power that authorizes a superior to violate the forbidden frontier. Far from demanding general independence, the rebel wants it to be recognized that freedom has its limits everywhere that a human being is to be found - the limit being precisely that human being's power to rebel. The most profound reason for rebellious intransigence is to be found here. The more aware rebellion is of demanding a just limit, the more inflexible it becomes. The rebel undoubtedly demands a certain degree of freedom for himself; but in no case, if he is consistent, does he demand the right to destroy the existence and freedom of others. He humiliates no one. The freedom he claims, he claims for all; the freedom he refuses, he forbids everyone to enjoy. He is not only the slave against the master, but also man against the world of master and slave. Therefore, thanks to rebellion, there is something more in history than the relation between mastery and servitude. Unlimited power is not the only law. It is in the name of another value that the rebel affirms the impossibility of total freedom while he claims for himself the relative freedom necessary to recognize this impossibility. Every human freedom, at its very roots, is therefore relative. Absolute freedom, which is the freedom to kill, is the only one which does not claim, at the same time as itself, the things that limit and obliterate it. Thus it cuts itself off from its roots and - abstract and malevolent shade - wanders haphazardly until such time as it imagines that it has found substance as some ideology.

It is then possible to say that rebellion, when it develops into destruction, is illogical. Claiming the unity of the human condition, it is a force of life, not of death.
*See pages 284-285.
Don't mourn, organize.

-Joe Hill
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