Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

Discuss the evolution of human culture, economics and politics in the decades and centuries ahead
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wjfox
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Re: Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

Post by wjfox »

Jakob wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm
Will is personally very left wing

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caltrek
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Re: Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

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wjfox wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:54 pm
...

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This image kind of cracked me up as I identified myself earlier as either a Democratic Socialist or as a Liberal. I guess one reason for taking up such a wide spectrum on this graph is because of the constant problem of definition. Adding "Democratic" to the label is a hedge against going too far to the left. As mentioned before, being a "liberal" in the United States is to be farther to the left than being a "liberal" in say Australia. So, yes, Centre Left by European (or British) standards is probably about right.

The other factor is that I don't like being too closely associated with any particular ideological tendency. Above all, at least in practice, I tend to be pragmatic. If a "Conservative" solution works, I will gladly embrace it. "Communism" and "Fascism" are simply too authoritarian for my tastes, so in any event I try to avoid those extremes.
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Jakob
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Re: Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

Post by Jakob »

wjfox wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:54 pm
Jakob wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm
Will is personally very left wing

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Center left in western Europe is certainly far left from an American perspective.
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Re: Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

Post by joe00uk »

Honestly, I'm not really sure "left" or "right" wing are even relevant descriptions in the 21st Century. I think a more relevant spectrum in the Western world would be how pro-establishment or how populist you are. People who identify as "right" or "left" wing often find a surprising amount of common ground depending on establishment (centrist) or populist sympathies.
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Re: Is this a communist forum? Is futurism synonymous with the far-left?

Post by peekpok »

WOLFSKULL wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:48 pmAt the foundation of it all is this arrogant idea, so common with both leftists and futurists, that you know what's best for me and the exact life I'm supposed to be taking in every scope.
I think you should be wary of making the mistake of thinking that a love for authoritarianism is somehow more ingrained in the left than the right. There is a minority of conservatives, but still way too large of a minority for comfort, that are itching to genocide LGBT people if they ever manage to take power. There is a general lack of respect for individual liberty among the population at large, regardless of political affiliation. I've got boots on my neck coming from both directions, although I will say that for me personally, more of those have come from the right side of the aisle.
I'm "overthrowing foreign socialist governments is justifiable" right-wing. I'm "the Iraq War was justifiable" right-wing. [...] A common theme I see discussed is the idea of a "borderless world", or a "world government", which is an idea very fitting for leftists since their entire worldview is based on whatever sounds good or nice on the surface, without thinking too deeply about anything or considering how humans actually behave, since that would interfere with their absolute perfection. Would you let just anyone inside your house? Would you let just anyone in your social circles? Why should I let just anyone inside my country?
I'm feeling a contradiction here. You don't support world government, but you do support the US as some kind of global police force? What do you think is the real purpose of American interference and military action in other governments? The goal is economic integration, to establish trade relations, form stable labor pools for manufacturing, and to gain access to natural resources. However this kind of integration necessitates the flow of human capital across borders. Immigration is an inevitable bi-product of global imperialism. The more the West achieves market penetration around the world, the more it becomes economically and culturally inseparable from its vassals. You can't just choose to have the benefits without the other side effects that it entails.
Is it really the ultimate fate of humanity to lose all individuality, liberty and personal enterprise or face extinction? Is human agency inherently unsustainable, and we should outsource all decision making to AI? Is it best for us to have every action tracked, recorded and evaluated by an overwhelming power?
I don't engage with a whole lot of leftist media, but in general from what I have seen personally, leftists have a reactionary backlash against AI. Frankly there's nothing they seem to hate more than self-driving cars, robots, image generators, electric cars, apps, gig economy, and various other sorts of disruptive technologies. I feel like some of your representations of leftist politics comes from your own idea of what you think a certain kind of person might think like, and not from the actual views and beliefs of the modern political left.

EDIT: And just to clarify, my own political affiliation would be center-left I guess? Or maybe neoliberal. Frankly the things I'd want the most are stronger free speech protections, but also a 'free' healthcare system similar the ones implemented in most developed Western nations.
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