Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Discuss the evolution of human culture, economics and politics in the decades and centuries ahead
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Set and Meet Goals
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Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Post by Set and Meet Goals »

In the Maoist sense Cuba was never socialist however they have a planned economy and basically anyone that isn't a Maoist would call them socialist.

A year or so ago they began full liberalisation of the economy to become a neoliberal capitalist state. They did this by legalising the private sector in all sectors of the economy (probably not literally all sectors e.g no private army or police like most capitalist countries).

I think Cuba is now having real goods shortages not faked by right wing propoganda causing Democracy protests. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 13788.html

The goods shortages is because economic planning has been reduced and it can't now plan things out to deal with embargos and the new liberal capitalist class in Cuba engaging in class struggle by withholding goods and sabotaging the economy etc.

I think this will lead to Cuba becoming a western style democracy or fascist.
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erowind
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Re: Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Post by erowind »

I don’t think Cuba is liberalizing. The people voted to follow “socialism by another path” in one of their recent referendums. What the means in essence is a gradual change in economic policy to allow sole proprietorships/family owned and wholly operated businesses where no wage slavery is taking place. Where the one exception to this rule as before is the tourist industry.

This policy barring the tourist exception isn’t unprecedented in socialist countries. Yugoslavia embraced an even more comprehensive market socialism by also allowing cooperatives.

I think it remains to be seen how far these policy changes go. The people still voted to maintain socialism and explicitly rejected capitalism in referendum. Capitalist media is going to continue to try to paint this as “liberalization” which itself would be nothing more than feeding Cuba to the austerity vultures like Russia was anyways. That doesn’t mean it’s true, some market mechanisms and a capitalist economy are two different things.
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R8Z
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Re: Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Post by R8Z »

These movements in Cuba represent two news for the country: one bad and one good.

The good one first: Cuba and their people are finally realizing that living as a slave to the nation state and their masters (politicians and deep state bureaucrats) might be a bad idea.
The bad one: the current generation is too brainwashed to accept that they have been lied since early school by people trying to maintain their privileges and status-quo, there are also too many people with skin-in-the-game that would lose if they tried to change the system. It will take at least one or two generations for a full liberalization of Cuba; IF that ever happens due to general cultural desire.

All-in-all I feel inspired by the ones who are able to escape their situation in countries like these: when they thrive and don't even look back to try to fight the juggernaut that is a socialist one-party country. These are heroes, they liberate their families and their descendants are saved from eternal slavery (a lifetime is eternally long for one human being). I feel sorry for the ones that can't escape and are forced to fight their way into liberty, almost never achieving anything and still being demonized by arm-chair socialists who benefit the most from the western capitalist civilization. These warriors are a different kind of heroes, but it must suck being them.
And, as always, bye bye.
caltrek
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Re: Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Post by caltrek »

The Hidden Hand of the US Blockade Sparks Cuba Protests
by Medea Benjamin and Leonard Flores
July 13, 2021

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021 ... a-protests

Introduction:
(Common Dreams) Protests erupted in various Cuban cities the weekend of July 11 over dire economic conditions and a surge in Covid-19 cases. They are the biggest protests to hit Cuba in three decades, and they may well continue in the coming weeks. They come on the heels of artists' protests in Havana at the end of 2020, and have extended to many parts of the island. But their scale has been exaggerated by the Western press and by Cuban Americans who have been predicting, for 60 years, the imminent fall of the Cuban government.

Media outlets like The New York Times wrote about "hundreds of Cubans" while Reuters described them as thousands. In either case, Cuba has a population of 11 million people. The protests pale in comparison, both in terms of turnout and in state repression, to mass mobilizations that have rocked Colombia, Haiti, Chile, Ecuador and other Latin American countries over the past few years—or even Portland, Oregon, or Ferguson, Missouri. Moreover, U.S. media have paid little attention to the counter protesters, who have gone out into the streets to express their support for the government and Cuban Revolution. This includes Cuban President Miguel Díaz-Canel, who marched in the streets of Havana after denouncing the protests as an attempt to "fracture the unity of the people."

The protests should also be understood in the context of a brutal economic war waged by the United States against the island nation for more than 60 years. This was laid out clearly by the U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State in 1960, when he explicitly called for "denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government." This strategy has failed in its goal of regime change for decades, and it is unlikely to be successful now.
Admittedly, this is a "media report" upon which I rely to give me a picture of what is happening in Cuba. Personally, I have never visited the country. However, I have attended events featuring visitors from Cuba and have had discussions with people who have visited that country. The tone of this article is consistent with impressions I have received from those personal experiences.
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BaobabScion
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Re: Full liberalisation of Cuba or fascist Cuba

Post by BaobabScion »

R8Z wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:39 pm These movements in Cuba represent two news for the country: one bad and one good.

The good one first: Cuba and their people are finally realizing that living as a slave to the nation state and their masters (politicians and deep state bureaucrats) might be a bad idea.
The bad one: the current generation is too brainwashed to accept that they have been lied since early school by people trying to maintain their privileges and status-quo, there are also too many people with skin-in-the-game that would lose if they tried to change the system. It will take at least one or two generations for a full liberalization of Cuba; IF that ever happens due to general cultural desire.

All-in-all I feel inspired by the ones who are able to escape their situation in countries like these: when they thrive and don't even look back to try to fight the juggernaut that is a socialist one-party country. These are heroes, they liberate their families and their descendants are saved from eternal slavery (a lifetime is eternally long for one human being). I feel sorry for the ones that can't escape and are forced to fight their way into liberty, almost never achieving anything and still being demonized by arm-chair socialists who benefit the most from the western capitalist civilization. These warriors are a different kind of heroes, but it must suck being them.
This is a bad take. Your use of terms like "heroes" and "slaves and "deep state bureaucrats" are mismatched and would apply better to a place like the US than it would to Cuba if using the proper context. These Cuban Americans you say "fled eternal slavery" could actually be more aptly described as the enslavers themselves. They're so eager to write blogposts urging the government to intervene in Cuba because they're salivating at the possibility of regaining their old plantations.

The big 4 media outlets are fulfilling their role as Imperialist mouthpieces and manufacturing consent with a righteous fervor. It's just saddening that people are gobbling it up so easily, but it's my fault for being surprised. The same could be said about the coverage of Haiti or the wider coverage of China.
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