Importance of money in the future

Discuss the evolution of human culture, economics and politics in the decades and centuries ahead

How important is money going to be in the future?

More important than today
3
20%
About as important as today
4
27%
Less important than today
8
53%
 
Total votes: 15

Mitro
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:45 pm

Importance of money in the future

Post by Mitro »

I am a 22 year old man just getting started on a high income career and I am realizing that if I make my career a priority and save wisely I can retire in 20-25 years if nothing unexpected happens.

This has got me thinking about how important money will be in the future. If the singularity comes just as I retire I guess all my work will be for nothing since we will be a post scarcity society anyway. But what if it's late? I still expect the trend of something like UBI appearing as automation grows and technological advancement pace accelerating. Wouldn't those things decrease the importance of money since everyone's basic needs would be met anyway and even if I use my money to get something advanced, rapid technological progress will mean that thing will soon be obsolete or cheap enough for anyone to afford?

On the other hand we have things like cryonics which cost quite a bit and could mean the difference between death and life. I wonder if there is going to be a window of time in which costly interventions like mind uploading is going to make it so having more money is the difference between living forever and dying.

If you were in my position would you prioritize enjoying life now or investing in your career to enjoy life later?
User avatar
funkervogt
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by funkervogt »

I am a 22 year old man just getting started on a high income career
What is your career field?
I can retire in 20-25 years if nothing unexpected happens.
Getting married, having kids, being struck with a major medical problem, getting arrested and having your criminal record destroy your high-level career prospects...
If the singularity comes just as I retire I guess all my work will be for nothing since we will be a post scarcity society anyway. But what if it's late?
You should err on the side of caution and assume that the Singularity will happen late. Consider the Singularity's two most famous exponents: Vernor Vinge and Ray Kurzweil.

In 1993, Vinge predicted:
"Within thirty years, we will have the technological means to create superhuman intelligence. Shortly thereafter, the human era will be ended."

"Vinge refines his estimate of the time scales involved, adding, 'I'll be surprised if this event occurs before 2005 or after 2030.
We're not on track.

Ray Kurzweil's technology predictions that are pertinent to the Singularity happening by 2045 have also fallen significantly behind schedule. Read the full, gory details here: https://www.militantfuturist.com/how-ra ... re-faring/

If you are a talented, intelligent person who can be easily retrained for new types of work, then I doubt you'll be at risk of being shut out of the workforce by machines until you're in your fifties at the earliest. In fact, you have a better than even chance of having a good career that lasts until you're 65.
I still expect the trend of something like UBI appearing as automation grows and technological advancement pace accelerating.
I agree. In the U.S., we won't institute a UBI for many decades. Instead, we'll expand existing welfare programs (e.g. - Section 8 rent subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, free bus tickets for the poor). The trend has already started here--think of people in Appalachia who lost their jobs because the local coal mine shut down thanks to new solar panels being a cheaper source of energy. The ex-coal miners are uneducated, have no other skills, and are in many cases already middle-aged, so they can't get new jobs and are permanently unemployed. They are on welfare, do drugs, and will be stuck in their towns until the end. You read about them in news articles bearing terms like "deaths of despair" and "fentanyl/opioid crisis."

Truckers will be the next casualties of automation. Again, they're low-skilled people, many with personalities that are unsuited for higher types of work. Autonomous vehicles will decimate them.
Wouldn't those things decrease the importance of money since everyone's basic needs would be met anyway and even if I use my money to get something advanced, rapid technological progress will mean that thing will soon be obsolete or cheap enough for anyone to afford?
In the U.S. at least, even living off of the bloated welfare programs we'll have in the future will mean enduring daily hardships, chronic low self-esteem, and an inability to enjoy the finer things in life. For example, if you're on free government programs, you won't be able to fly to Hawaii for a vacation, eat at a highly-rated restaurant, buy the latest VR headset, or live in a big house where everyone has ample personal space, privacy, and room to store their possessions. Even at the end of this century, richer humans will enjoy a higher standard of living than poorer humans.
On the other hand we have things like cryonics which cost quite a bit and could mean the difference between death and life.
Don't worry about that. You pay for cryonics by taking out a life insurance policy and listing the cryonics company as your beneficiary. It's more affordable than you think. Anyway, if you have a successful career, by the time you're about to die from old age, you'll have more than enough cash in the bank to pay for the procedure in one lump sum.
I wonder if there is going to be a window of time in which costly interventions like mind uploading is going to make it so having more money is the difference between living forever and dying.
There is a good chance this will be the case for you during your lifetime.
If you were in my position would you prioritize enjoying life now or investing in your career to enjoy life later?
I would balance both priorities equally. Again, if you're about to embark on a high-paying career, you won't need to save every penny to ensure comfort (and perhaps eternal life) in your Golden Years. Saving 25% of your after-tax income starting now will put you way ahead of the game.
Nero
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:17 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by Nero »

To combat what Funkervogt suggested about humanity not being on track to achieve the singularity I would state that the timeframe of after 2005 and before 2040 is astronomically large in terms of technological progress, we still have nearly two decades until the 2040's and that same space of time contained the evolution of humanity from the sinking of the Titantic to the end of the second world war. It contained everything from the end of the second world war to the development of the Atari home gaming sytem.

The World Wide Web did not even exist 35 years ago, 20 years ago smartphones and virtual assistants would have been the things of cyberpunk novels not day to day life, 18 years ago the most powerful supercomputer on the Earth would have around the same amount of computational power as an RTX3090 and significantly less than the 4000 series. 17 years ago - a smaller amount of time than between now and 2040 YouTube was created, Twitter did not exist and Pluto was still a planet.

There is little advantage in worrying about the Singularity from where you stand now however, the best you can do is to earn as much financial capital as possible without attempting to predict where technology will be nearly two decades from now with any real accuracy.
User avatar
R8Z
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:25 pm
Location: Remote

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by R8Z »

Mitro wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:46 am [...] I am realizing that if I make my career a priority and save wisely I can retire in 20-25 years if nothing unexpected happens.[...]
I think by now you've already figured it all out but this is a core tenet of the FIRE community as well which I am great fan and follower, so I suggest you to take a look at resources surrounding that.

As to your main question, I think both users above gave very good responses, especially funkervogt in its breakdown which I'd say I agree 100%.

My personal opinion is that you should try to save and invest as much as you personally can while setting aside some "fun money" as to enjoy life. Your savings and investments should always be taking into account the lumping inflation we've being unfortunately forced to live in. A major economic collapse could also come in that timespan (next 20 years), so you could also put some thoughts into how to mitigate it. You could cut the investing timeline to shorter extent (from 20yrs to 15 or maybe even 10) if you move from a HCOL (high cost of living) area to a LCOL and continue with the higher income stream. I've done that more than a year ago and I am very glad to be able to save/invest on the majority of months about 60-70% of my income.

On your poll I've picked that money will be even a more important thing in the future, given the ever increasing purchasing options we are seeing every year. If you look at the past some things were more expensive, sure, but there were less options on were to put your money on. Even yourself has raised a good example about spending money on something inexistent nowadays like mind uploading, a technology which is not even possible with current technology. Don't get me wrong, in the future you could opt for a more chill life "back-to-monke" style even, but that's not the path I would personally direct myself towards and by the feeling of your message it seems it also not yours.

As for myself, I want to be ready to pay whatever the cost it will be for a rejuvenating treatment whenever it becomes ready, so I am preparing.
And, as always, bye bye.
Nanotechandmorefuture
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:15 pm
Location: At the moment Miami, FL

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by Nanotechandmorefuture »

Investing for sure all the way. I do regret not doing it young and listening to bad advice as a kid of "enjoy your childhood" when that is the WORST kind of information you need to hear when you are a poor kid! I'm working on that myself now because with the life extension tech as R8Z mentioned making advances there will be plenty of time to enjoy life later on.
Mitro
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:45 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by Mitro »

What is your career field?
Software engineering In big tech companies where the salaries are high. Also my home country is less expensive than the average western country so I would need a smaller nest egg to come back here and retire.
If you are a talented, intelligent person who can be easily retrained for new types of work, then I doubt you'll be at risk of being shut out of the workforce by machines until you're in your fifties at the earliest. In fact, you have a better than even chance of having a good career that lasts until you're 65.
The pro of investing in career and saving is that I will be able to take advantage of exponential returns of my investments (except if a war or something else destroys the market) and hopefully if I get out early enough I won't have to retrain for a new type of work, which would probably really drop my earnings. If singularity is at least 30-35 years away, this seems to be the obvious choice, especially if rejuvenating tech will be able to keep me living healthily for longer.
In the U.S. at least, even living off of the bloated welfare programs we'll have in the future will mean enduring daily hardships, chronic low self-esteem, and an inability to enjoy the finer things in life. For example, if you're on free government programs, you won't be able to fly to Hawaii for a vacation, eat at a highly-rated restaurant, buy the latest VR headset, or live in a big house where everyone has ample personal space, privacy, and room to store their possessions. Even at the end of this century, richer humans will enjoy a higher standard of living than poorer humans.
Yeah I guess I was too focused on technology where there is rapid progress (which is probably going to accelerate), but there plenty of things that are important to people that aren't getting any better/cheaper (housing for example). For the VR headset example, I simply assumed that if someone waits a few years they would be able to get a headset with the capabilities of that latest one for much cheaper.

All in all I am gonna invest in my career for the foreseeable future and maybe if a post scarcity society seems certain and imminent I will consider stopping.
User avatar
TanishaTanTan
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:23 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by TanishaTanTan »

Nero wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:14 pm To combat what Funkervogt suggested about humanity not being on track to achieve the singularity I would state that the timeframe of after 2005 and before 2040 is astronomically large in terms of technological progress, we still have nearly two decades until the 2040's and that same space of time contained the evolution of humanity from the sinking of the Titantic to the end of the second world war. It contained everything from the end of the second world war to the development of the Atari home gaming sytem.

The World Wide Web did not even exist 35 years ago, 20 years ago smartphones and virtual assistants would have been the things of cyberpunk novels not day to day life, 18 years ago the most powerful supercomputer on the Earth would have around the same amount of computational power as an RTX3090 and significantly less than the 4000 series. 17 years ago - a smaller amount of time than between now and 2040 YouTube was created, Twitter did not exist and Pluto was still a planet.

There is little advantage in worrying about the Singularity from where you stand now however, the best you can do is to earn as much financial capital as possible without attempting to predict where technology will be nearly two decades from now with any real accuracy.
Money is very important to many right now. Although they say that this is not the main thing in life. I was on the verge of bankruptcy and then hit the jackpot. You can't describe how I felt then. My life just turned upside down after that.
Where did you read this?
Last edited by TanishaTanTan on Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vakanai
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by Vakanai »

Depends on time frames - next 30 to 50 years or so money will only get more and more important as it continues to flow up to the rich. But 100+ years from now when AI and robots have entirely removed humans from the workforce? Money will become much less important, and one day I believe money won't exist at all.
User avatar
DouglasTheKing
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:37 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by DouglasTheKing »

Err, I see it differently, I don't believe that money importance will diminish significantly in the future, even with the advancements in AI and robotics.

In the next few decades, I anticipate that money will continue to be crucial, especially as economic disparities persist and wealth accumulates among the affluent. The flow of money toward the rich tends to be a recurring trend, and it's unlikely to change drastically in the foreseeable future. And at this moment it is about people who know how to make money easy, for example, [spam link removed] is my source for learning about light efforts and good income) I choose to pay by sms casino for convenient deposits and this method is a way to richness. I mean we live in a century when we have all the possibilities to research and choose the best option to earn money.

Furthermore, even with the rise of AI and robots in the workforce, it's important to remember that technological advancements also come with their own costs)) The development, maintenance, and operation of sophisticated AI systems require substantial financial resources. I bet that as long as these technologies remain under the control of organizations and individuals, the economic systems surrounding them will still rely on monetary transactions.

While it's intriguing to envision a future where money becomes less important or nonexistent, it's challenging to foresee a complete eradication of money from our society. I believe more that money will continue to evolve, adapting to new technologies and societal changes, rather than disappearing entirely.

That's just my opinion after a mini research.
Vakanai
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 pm

Re: Importance of money in the future

Post by Vakanai »

DouglasTheKing wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:16 pm Err, I see it differently, I don't believe that money importance will diminish significantly in the future, even with the advancements in AI and robotics.

In the next few decades, I anticipate that money will continue to be crucial, especially as economic disparities persist and wealth accumulates among the affluent. The flow of money toward the rich tends to be a recurring trend, and it's unlikely to change drastically in the foreseeable future. And at this moment it is about people who know how to make money easy, for example, [spam link removed] is my source for learning about light efforts and good income) I choose to pay by sms casino for convenient deposits and this method is a way to richness. I mean we live in a century when we have all the possibilities to research and choose the best option to earn money.

Furthermore, even with the rise of AI and robots in the workforce, it's important to remember that technological advancements also come with their own costs)) The development, maintenance, and operation of sophisticated AI systems require substantial financial resources. I bet that as long as these technologies remain under the control of organizations and individuals, the economic systems surrounding them will still rely on monetary transactions.

While it's intriguing to envision a future where money becomes less important or nonexistent, it's challenging to foresee a complete eradication of money from our society. I believe more that money will continue to evolve, adapting to new technologies and societal changes, rather than disappearing entirely.

That's just my opinion after a mini research.
The problem is, how does money work if no one has jobs anymore? Eventually humans will be replaced entirely - maybe not in our lifetimes, but unless society collapses it's pretty inevitable that we'll get to that point this century or the next or the one after that. No jobs for people, how do people make money? UBI for all?
Post Reply