Is Civilization Collapsing?

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SerethiaFalcon
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by SerethiaFalcon »

@Myth of Progress

*Note* I'll leave this one up, as it kind of rounds out the discussion. There are enough pieces from the other discussions to put things together. Just hate leaving up walls of text forever anymore.

On the focus on Earth lifeforms in general, fair enough. I must have read it as you cared more about sapience, but if I was wrong, I was wrong.

My spiritual beliefs/practices/path is less human-centric. However, I am still developing the foundational concepts rather than externalizing it yet. I do appear more nihilistic in the way I talk here, but in truth, I do care about life here on Earth, I just have no solutions to human malaise, so I don't feel talking about how we are all doomed does anything. I've never seen it do anything except make people avoid you, so I prefer to observe and figure out what I can do in my personal life instead. Someone on the internet once described my beliefs as sounding panentheistic. This was someone coming from the Pagan community. But, I don't really fit very well into that either. Regardless, I feel this forum isn't really conducive to spiritual discussions, so I don't like to delve into my beliefs here. Trying to explain what I believe can sometimes be a headache anyway. My beliefs are not nihilistic, though.

Fair enough about the death thing.

Well, but of course, being in the situation I've been in, I would not want to deny people's bodily autonomy. I think medically assisted suicide can be helpful for those that want to be relieved of pain/feel too old to continue on. Besides, funerals are for the living, and often people preserve others for their own benefit not the individual suffering.

Certainly, the Turkana will be affected, but do we know just how bad it will be yet? It seems like sometimes we understand the ramifications on our planet, and other times things take us by surprise. Besides, it would take a lot for the entire planet to be so hot as to be uninhabitable by anything. I still feel like some people won't see the full ramifications of this scenario in their lifetimes. Asteroids, a nuclear disaster of huge proportions, or disease could wipe us largely out before that point. I just feel there are too many unknowns to know for absolute certainty. Also, if most humans die, and fossil fuels cease to be used, what effect will that have on the planet? Nature is sometimes faster at adapting than humans, and with humans out of the way, who knows?

Yes, I will be witness to it, and I will be sad for humanity, that they failed. I will regret things I could have done better perhaps, and I will feel the pain and trauma of what happens. But, to me, my soul will continue. And if not, it's no big deal to me. I'm not a nihilist, but I'm also not as myopic on all topics in life. Besides, to me, from what my soul has experienced of humanity and other things I'd rather not get into, all this would have a familiarity to it. That's why I would in some ways be nonchalant. On the edge of the precipice, I'd be panicking. Once we are in the throes of it, I'd be fascinated and in awe of the force of nature to wipe out life itself, even in the midst of my pain.

Yes, it is easy to take a bird's eye view of suffering, but you still seem to be taking this idea that I haven't been face to face with adversity. There are so many things I haven't mentioned outside of my suicidalness. I'm just saying how I am within adversity, from my own experience. When something crazy is going on, I don't panic, I'm actually very calm. It's just that I'm slow in responding unless an external person urges me to take my own safety more seriously. When I'm in pain, obviously I'm miserable and my body is focused on the pain. But, eventually, you have to keep going on. That's what I do. My main problem is that I get panicked about the potential of problems (and only certain ones), not the actual problem itself. The calmness is great for helping others though. When catastrophe strikes, I may not be the first to take action, but I'll be the one to follow them around with blankets, first aid, etc, if I had the opportunity.

I do have mental health diagnoses, but I'd rather not share more than I have in that regard. I've had negative experiences with people diagnosing me over the internet. As far as dissociation goes, all I know is that I've always been in my own head more than in the physical world. I'm a daydreamer and a deep thinker, but that doesn't bode well for being very present (mentally or physically).

Yeah, mindfulness helps, but, each person is different, so it's not going to fix everything for everyone. I know some of what works for me and it isn't always that.

Agree.

Yes, US culture is very fragmented due to hyper-individualism and focus on consumption, fame, and fortune. Of course, not all cultures are like this.

I have a different perspective on false hope. It is a mechanism of survival. To me, it isn't necessarily as bad as you are making it out to be if it helps people survive. Besides, that may just be what helps both humans and some animals continue on when things get really, really bad. It's like when some say religion or spirituality is always bad because it's not dealing with the "truth" and causes power grabs/political controls that are negative, but the human experience has a lot of unknowns to it. We don't know what it is like to be another person, so we are only trying to theorize with what we know from our own experiences. Who's to say that they never experienced what they experienced? You don't know for certain unless you were there or you were literally in their skin (depending on the topic).
Last edited by SerethiaFalcon on Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MythOfProgress
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by MythOfProgress »

On the focus on Earth lifeforms in general, fair enough. I must have read it as you cared more about sapience, but if I was wrong, I was wrong.
nah you're good, i've mentioned before the internet doesn't always capture nuances or subtleties in communication so it's to be expected at times.
My spiritual beliefs/practices/path is less human-centric. However, I am still developing the foundational concepts rather than externalizing it yet. I do appear more nihilistic in the way I talk here, but in truth, I do care about life here on Earth, I just have no solutions to human malaise, so I don't feel talking about how we are all doomed does anything. I've never seen it do anything except make people avoid you, so I prefer to observe and figure out what I can do in my personal life instead. Someone on the internet once described my beliefs as sounding panentheistic. This was someone coming from the Pagan community. But, I don't really fit very well into that either. Regardless, I feel this forum isn't really conducive to spiritual discussions, so I don't like to delve into my beliefs here. Trying to explain what I believe can sometimes be a headache anyway. My beliefs are not nihilistic, though.
hmm, i understand if you don't wanna put labels on it-its definitely a personal thing you get to decide, im just confused since i was trying to get a good gauge on what your philosophy was like- but if you're still in the midst of figuring it out i hope it goes well for you.
Well, but of course, being in the situation I've been in, I would not want to deny people's bodily autonomy. I think medically assisted suicide can be helpful for those that want to be relieved of pain/feel too old to continue on. Besides, funerals are for the living, and often people preserve others for their own benefit not the individual suffering.
yeah, that's where i was trying to go with the previous explanation- people will be affected by suicides, they're not something to be taken lightly- especially when it comes to acquaintances, friends and loved ones- they'll be protecting themselves in any way they can which includes keeping the person in question around for as long as possible- usually not with much regard for how they're feeling or suffering- to be truly selfless means to look past one's own wants/needs and acknowledge a position someone is in. our capacity for object permanency is rooted in us, so it's justifiable for most people to want to keep someone around for as long as possible.
ertainly, the Turkana will be affected, but do we know just how bad it will be yet? It seems like sometimes we understand the ramifications on our planet, and other times things take us by surprise. Besides, it would take a lot for the entire planet to be so hot as to be uninhabitable by anything. I still feel like some people won't see the full ramifications of this scenario in their lifetimes. Asteroids, a nuclear disaster of huge proportions, or disease could wipe us largely out before that point. I just feel there are too many unknowns to know for absolute certainty. Also, if most humans die, and fossil fuels cease to be used, what effect will that have on the planet? Nature is sometimes faster at adapting than humans, and with humans out of the way, who knows?
i mean the data is there, it's not really a matter of nobody knowing how things are gonna turn out, you can read the latest IPCC report(as conservative as it may be in its estimates) and acknowledge its probably not gonna end well. because our world is one big open system(as opposed to being a series of closed systems); our ability for impacting the environment is unprecedented, any of the mass extinctions that occurred previously before our time don't really hold a candle to what it is we are truly experiencing. there's never been this much carbon released this fast in just 250+ years of earth's history, a blink of an eye when you think about the timescales previous mass extinctions occurred which range in millions of years. it's an understatement that things will take us by surprise, because there's bound to be a lot of unpredictable, negative side effects of releasing hydrocarbons in such a short period of time.
Yes, I will be witness to it, and I will be sad for humanity, that they failed. I will regret things I could have done better perhaps, and I will feel the pain and trauma of what happens. But, to me, my soul will continue. And if not, it's no big deal to me. I'm not a nihilist, but I'm also not as myopic on all topics in life. Besides, to me, from what my soul has experienced of humanity and other things I'd rather not get into, all this would have a familiarity to it. That's why I would in some ways be nonchalant. On the edge of the precipice, I'd be panicking. Once we are in the throes of it, I'd be fascinated and in awe of the force of nature to wipe out life itself, even in the midst of my pain.
Yes, it is easy to take a bird's eye view of suffering, but you still seem to be taking this idea that I haven't been face to face with adversity. There are so many things I haven't mentioned outside of my suicidalness. I'm just saying how I am within adversity, from my own experience. When something crazy is going on, I don't panic, I'm actually very calm. It's just that I'm slow in responding unless an external person urges me to take my own safety more seriously. When I'm in pain, obviously I'm miserable and my body is focused on the pain. But, eventually, you have to keep going on. That's what I do. My main problem is that I get panicked about the potential of problems (and only certain ones), not the actual problem itself. The calmness is great for helping others though. When catastrophe strikes, I may not be the first to take action, but I'll be the one to follow them around with blankets, first aid, etc, if I had the opportunity.
i suppose that does make sense when i think about it, i kept confusing it as you not caring, but it does look more like it's a zen thing, so that's my fault for getting it mixed up.
I do have mental health diagnoses, but I'd rather not share more than I have in that regard. I've had negative experiences with people diagnosing me over the internet. As far as dissociation goes, all I know is that I've always been in my own head more than in the physical world. I'm a daydreamer and a deep thinker, but that doesn't bode well for being very present (mentally or physically).
apologies if i overstepped any boundaries, mostly being inquisitive if not interrogative so i'll make sure not to make that mistake again.
I have a different perspective on false hope. It is a mechanism of survival. To me, it isn't necessarily as bad as you are making it out to be if it helps people survive. Besides, that may just be what helps both humans and some animals continue on when things get really, really bad. It's like when some say religion or spirituality is always bad because it's not dealing with the "truth" and causes power grabs/political controls that are negative, but the human experience has a lot of unknowns to it. We don't know what it is like to be another person, so we are only trying to theorize with what we know from our own experiences. Who's to say that they never experienced what they experienced? You don't know for certain unless you were there or you were literally in their skin (depending on the topic).
yeah this, it's the whole benefits of belief notion, i'm able to begrudge people's beliefs so long as it doesn't hurt anyone, but majority of the time it almost always does hurt someone, either the adherent's friends/associates/acquaintances/loved ones are affected negatively as the person in question absorbs tenets of their faith and fall prey to dogmatic thinking

- to which they view certain people(LGBT+, other religions, atheists, women, differently abled, etc) in a negative manner, walk away with human-centered views that dictate the world is "ours" for the taking(being fruitful and multiplying) or worse, internalize the oppression if they are part of the aforementioned vulnerable groups in our society.

you'll probably guess that im referring to organized religion or more precisely, the Abrahamic religions to which a good portion of our world subscribes to. as for spirituality, i haven't really heard of anyone doing the same thing(s) i've mentioned when it comes to religion, mostly because its not really organized and more or less something that people decide for themselves what it looks like, so there isn't really one form of it. that isn't to say people can't be good because of religion, just mostly that in my observations they'll be good in spite of it as they edit or ignore certain tenets of their faith to allow for empathetic relationships.

while it might not come across this way at certain times, i do appreciate you being comfortable or willing to share your life experiences with someone like me, who's just a stranger on the internet, so thanks again.
R.I.P Ziba.
Nanotechandmorefuture
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by Nanotechandmorefuture »

Only temporarily hence the true reason of COVID-19. Whatever it gets rebuilt back into will be of whatever plan is in motion right now.

Don't fear it as much when I became actually educated on the track of things back in 2018. My biggest regret is all that time wasted before 2018. Taking all this education back to when I was younger in 2002-2003 would be nice so I could get some financial freedom earlier and do what I plan to do now once I achieve that - eat lots of food, be healthy, and also eat a lot of junk food of which Doritos Dynamita is my favorite!
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R8Z
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by R8Z »

Nanotechandmorefuture wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:47 am Only temporarily hence the true reason of COVID-19. Whatever it gets rebuilt back into will be of whatever plan is in motion right now.

Don't fear it as much when I became actually educated on the track of things back in 2018. My biggest regret is all that time wasted before 2018. Taking all this education back to when I was younger in 2002-2003 would be nice so I could get some financial freedom earlier and do what I plan to do now once I achieve that - eat lots of food, be healthy, and also eat a lot of junk food of which Doritos Dynamita is my favorite!
What you up to nowadays? I am curious as it seems it's working good for you.
And, as always, bye bye.
Nanotechandmorefuture
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by Nanotechandmorefuture »

R8Z wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:07 am
Nanotechandmorefuture wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:47 am Only temporarily hence the true reason of COVID-19. Whatever it gets rebuilt back into will be of whatever plan is in motion right now.

Don't fear it as much when I became actually educated on the track of things back in 2018. My biggest regret is all that time wasted before 2018. Taking all this education back to when I was younger in 2002-2003 would be nice so I could get some financial freedom earlier and do what I plan to do now once I achieve that - eat lots of food, be healthy, and also eat a lot of junk food of which Doritos Dynamita is my favorite!
What you up to nowadays? I am curious as it seems it's working good for you.
Dunno about it working good for me because it sure don't seem like it at the moment. I've been through too much to be trusting of anyone and that is why even with all this that is happening I am naturally suspicious. Yep... even some small theorists like myself are skeptical at first before considering anything else.

At the moment I'm finalizing the last bits of a course so I can work from home, be able to fund a little side biz, finish my A.S. college degree and look towards somewhere else to study, invest in crypto like Safemoon since its so cheap right now thankfully, and a few fun other things. All this digital currency should make things easier for the future. Not sure about this but if all this tech change ends up toning down society to be pleasant that will be another plus in my view.
Tadasuke
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by Tadasuke »

I often find myself thinking that if nearly everything is so shit, then what's the point of all of this? But then I remind myself that it has never been better. I am often disappointed by other people, but people in the past were even worse. They were doing in real life things that are today widely considered wrong. The trends clearly point to a better direction. Even the natural environment - above a certain development level, the environment starts getting better instead of worse.
Global economy doubles in product every 15-20 years. Computer performance at a constant price doubles nowadays every 4 years on average. Livestock-as-food will globally stop being a thing by ~2050 (precision fermentation and more). Human stupidity, pride and depravity are the biggest problems of our world.
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R8Z
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by R8Z »

The more I think about this the more I believe this perception is all about cheap energy. Europe is facing a crisis because energy got (super) expensive. Brazil is facing a bloom (people are happier and future seems bright) because energy got cheaper. In this thread by energy I mean any forms of it: coal, oil, petrol, raw electricity, etc. Giving the centralized states are now self-targeting on an energy-reducing spree by any means and ignoring the elephant in the room, maybe advances in decentralized commercially-driven generation/conversion of power will be required to see expressive growth and QoL improvements entering the 2030s. It's hard to evaluate consensus on this or even find relevant literature in this area as most of it is from ecological doomsayers that simply see cheap energy as evil own its own.

Personally I can't wait to go full solar/wind on my own house once I move away from living in apartments.
And, as always, bye bye.
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SpencerBurgess
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Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?

Post by SpencerBurgess »

The European Union has practically survived a third of the winter without requiring Russia's energy resources. European authorities have found ways to store and conserve energy in advance. This fact makes me believe that humanity still has a chance to reorient our actions and adopt a more serious and caring approach to all kinds of natural resources. Ironic as it may seem, but thanks to the wrongdoings of the Russian Federation, Europe began to use everything more pragmatically, and then it happens the same with the rest of the world countries. I checked on https://graduateway.com/essay-examples/poverty/ some data about wealth and poverty and the conclusion I made after reading argumentative essay examples is a sure determined intention to try, at least, to contribute to saving up of the natural resources and not allow serious effects of poverty in our world.
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