Socialism vs Capitalism containment thread

[wjfox]

[wjfox]

[Yuli Ban]

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6x9aKkj ... -about-the

[Yuli Ban]

Folk class war narratives are still stuck in the feudalist era, which is why so many were stunned by Luigi Mangione being a rich guy killing another rich guy for classist reasons.
As someone who has spent the better part of his life tinkering on a narrative about a disgustingly super-elite person turned revolutionary socialist, this is not at all bizarre to me, but a lot of others are genuinely dumbfounded by the “hypocrisy” of a 1%er leftist. Ironically, “background determines worth” is a reactionary opinion.
An easy shorthand for political tribalism that may work in most situations, but betrays you where and when it matters. Here in the USA, arguably the most “class traitor”est of class traitors was Franklin Roosevelt, a man from the closest thing to an aristocracy you can get in a post-enlightened republic, alongside the Kennedys.

[firestar464]

I mean what really matters is what they do to help people, as well as the end result of their actions. Furthermore Luigi isn't Elon-level wealthy, so he's fine by me. The only reason we really hate on people like Elon is their money-hoarding behavior while everyone else is struggling. It isn't really about their wealth per se.



Not even a class war anymore honestly. Even the rich are getting screwed by Elon and co

[wjfox]

[wjfox]

[firestar464]

[wjfox]

[wjfox]

[firestar464]

I mean a lot of problems could be resolved if we just taxed properly.

Cooperativization is also good (and yes, we could still have competition between different cooperatives)

It also seems like most successful implementations of communist stuff seems to be bottom-up, at small and local levels.

[wjfox]

[zzz]

[firestar464]

The whole "vanguard" stuff rarely ever ends well

Regardless, socialism and capitalism are economic systems. Societies are also not necessarily either one or the other; they exist on a spectrum. Furthermore, both can exist under either democratic or autocratic systems.

[wjfox]

[wjfox]

[firestar464]

One need only look at the countless businesses not run by billionaires to disprove this ridiculous claim.

[caltrek]

One need only look at the countless businesses not run by billionaires to disprove this ridiculous claim.

Not to mention government sector employment, nonprofit organizations that are not run by billionaires, co-ops, and communes.

It is like a two-step process:

1) Do all you can to eliminate employment in small businesses, the government sector, nonprofit organizations that are not run by billionaires, co-ops, and communes.

2) Afte which you exclaim "we need our billionaires to maintain and create jobs."

[wjfox]

[caltrek]

American Capitalism is Being Remade by State Power
By H. Sami Karaca

August 28, 2025

Introduction:

(The Conversation) Is the Trump administration trying to reshape American capitalism? Recent moves by Washington, such as taking a 10% share of semiconductor maker Intel, point to a shift in that direction. For decades, Washington has supported free-market capitalism. Today, the government appears to be supporting a new direction – state-directed capitalism.

As a professor at the Questrom School of Business who studies different economic systems, I find this reversal striking. My research is supported by the Ravi K. Mehrotra Institute, which is trying to understand how business, markets and society interact. My previous research – finding, for example, that U.S. news coverage of capitalism was far more negative in the 1940s than it is now – suggests capitalism isn’t in retreat but is rather evolving.

In what direction is the Trump administration pushing it?

Types of capitalism

While many people bandy around the term “capitalism,” it actually comes in many different forms. The most basic definition of capitalism is when the means of production – such as factories, farms and offices – are owned by private individuals.

Capitalism is driven by profit. Some of the earliest descriptions of the profit motive that drives the whole system come from Adam Smith. As he wrote in 1776, “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.”

Read more here: https://theconversation.com/american-c ... r-263881