Re: The outcome of Russo-Ukrainian War of 2022-202..
Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 2:40 am
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I wouldn't really go so far as to consider it a pyrrhic victory - especially when I compare it to examples of pyrrhic victories in history books, where the victory meant having won something that's hardly worth anything.2) Russia's Pyrrhic victory (Russia controls Crimea and Donbass but nothing else)
I can agree with nearly everything you've quoted above. Except:funkervogt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:14 pm This article describes what I think is the likely scenario for the end of the Ukraine War.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia- ... ult-2022-5
This is based on the assumption that Ukrainian elite are those making decisions. They are not. The ceasefire only depends on the strategy of Ukraine's real masters in Washington, London or Brussels. If they decide enough is enough - Ukraine will surrender. If, however, they'll consider that an endless war with exchange of 20-50 thousand Ukrainian lives for 1-2 thousand Russian ones monthly worth it - then, I assure you, "Ukraine" will "decide" to fight and will "proudly" refuse any negotiations no matter what. In your Western media, probably, this will be portrayed as "unprecedented manifestation of the Spirit of Freedom", or some other pompous nonsense like that. And only a very few will understand this is not at all about freedom, but quite the opposite.funkervogt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:14 pm ...after months of war, their economy will be wrecked, their troops will be exhausted... Ukraine will begrudgingly sign a cease-fire with Russia...
I didn't agree with that analysis. It is a (probably intended) insult to Ukraine. and not an otherwise accurate description. Washington, London, and Brussels may be allied with Ukraine, but that hardly makes them their "masters." Even the alternative suggested, that elites rule over Ukraine in the same sense that royalty ruled over their citizens, is highly misleading. Elites are making decisions, but it seems abundantly clear that they are largely supported by Ukrainians in those decisions. Said Ukrainians do not want to be ruled by Russia. Instead they are struggling toward democratic rule. Those on the extreme left may sneer at this democracy as "bourgeois democracy", but clearly even that is far more democratic than anything that Russia has to offer, at least while Putin remains in charge. I don't expect you to agree with that, but I don't see the point in letting your opinion stand without being challenged.Certain Russian user wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:52 pmI can agree with nearly everything you've quoted above. Except:funkervogt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:14 pm This article describes what I think is the likely scenario for the end of the Ukraine War.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia- ... ult-2022-5
This is based on the assumption that Ukrainian elite are those making decisions. They are not. The ceasefire only depends on the strategy of Ukraine's real masters in Washington, London or Brussels.funkervogt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:14 pm ...after months of war, their economy will be wrecked, their troops will be exhausted... Ukraine will begrudgingly sign a cease-fire with Russia...
Again, it is not "pompous nonsense." With all due respect, it is your analysis which contains nothing but "pompous nonsense." It is not in their interest to be Putin's slaves, or be subject to his genocidal whims. At best, their surrender might save the lives of a few Russian soldiers, and that is all.If they decide enough is enough - Ukraine will surrender. If, however, they'll consider that an endless war with exchange of 20-50 thousand Ukrainian lives for 1-2 thousand Russian ones monthly worth it - then, I assure you, "Ukraine" will "decide" to fight and will "proudly" refuse any negotiations no matter what. In your Western media, probably, this will be portrayed as "unprecedented manifestation of the Spirit of Freedom", or some other pompous nonsense like that. And only a very few will understand this is not at all about freedom, but quite the opposite.
One way or another, "the writing is on the wall already" as one man here said. And they'd better surrender as soon as possible, this is in their own interests.