Re: Is Civilization Collapsing?
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:27 pm
@Myth of Progress
*Note* I'll leave this one up, as it kind of rounds out the discussion. There are enough pieces from the other discussions to put things together. Just hate leaving up walls of text forever anymore.
On the focus on Earth lifeforms in general, fair enough. I must have read it as you cared more about sapience, but if I was wrong, I was wrong.
My spiritual beliefs/practices/path is less human-centric. However, I am still developing the foundational concepts rather than externalizing it yet. I do appear more nihilistic in the way I talk here, but in truth, I do care about life here on Earth, I just have no solutions to human malaise, so I don't feel talking about how we are all doomed does anything. I've never seen it do anything except make people avoid you, so I prefer to observe and figure out what I can do in my personal life instead. Someone on the internet once described my beliefs as sounding panentheistic. This was someone coming from the Pagan community. But, I don't really fit very well into that either. Regardless, I feel this forum isn't really conducive to spiritual discussions, so I don't like to delve into my beliefs here. Trying to explain what I believe can sometimes be a headache anyway. My beliefs are not nihilistic, though.
Fair enough about the death thing.
Well, but of course, being in the situation I've been in, I would not want to deny people's bodily autonomy. I think medically assisted suicide can be helpful for those that want to be relieved of pain/feel too old to continue on. Besides, funerals are for the living, and often people preserve others for their own benefit not the individual suffering.
Certainly, the Turkana will be affected, but do we know just how bad it will be yet? It seems like sometimes we understand the ramifications on our planet, and other times things take us by surprise. Besides, it would take a lot for the entire planet to be so hot as to be uninhabitable by anything. I still feel like some people won't see the full ramifications of this scenario in their lifetimes. Asteroids, a nuclear disaster of huge proportions, or disease could wipe us largely out before that point. I just feel there are too many unknowns to know for absolute certainty. Also, if most humans die, and fossil fuels cease to be used, what effect will that have on the planet? Nature is sometimes faster at adapting than humans, and with humans out of the way, who knows?
Yes, I will be witness to it, and I will be sad for humanity, that they failed. I will regret things I could have done better perhaps, and I will feel the pain and trauma of what happens. But, to me, my soul will continue. And if not, it's no big deal to me. I'm not a nihilist, but I'm also not as myopic on all topics in life. Besides, to me, from what my soul has experienced of humanity and other things I'd rather not get into, all this would have a familiarity to it. That's why I would in some ways be nonchalant. On the edge of the precipice, I'd be panicking. Once we are in the throes of it, I'd be fascinated and in awe of the force of nature to wipe out life itself, even in the midst of my pain.
Yes, it is easy to take a bird's eye view of suffering, but you still seem to be taking this idea that I haven't been face to face with adversity. There are so many things I haven't mentioned outside of my suicidalness. I'm just saying how I am within adversity, from my own experience. When something crazy is going on, I don't panic, I'm actually very calm. It's just that I'm slow in responding unless an external person urges me to take my own safety more seriously. When I'm in pain, obviously I'm miserable and my body is focused on the pain. But, eventually, you have to keep going on. That's what I do. My main problem is that I get panicked about the potential of problems (and only certain ones), not the actual problem itself. The calmness is great for helping others though. When catastrophe strikes, I may not be the first to take action, but I'll be the one to follow them around with blankets, first aid, etc, if I had the opportunity.
I do have mental health diagnoses, but I'd rather not share more than I have in that regard. I've had negative experiences with people diagnosing me over the internet. As far as dissociation goes, all I know is that I've always been in my own head more than in the physical world. I'm a daydreamer and a deep thinker, but that doesn't bode well for being very present (mentally or physically).
Yeah, mindfulness helps, but, each person is different, so it's not going to fix everything for everyone. I know some of what works for me and it isn't always that.
Agree.
Yes, US culture is very fragmented due to hyper-individualism and focus on consumption, fame, and fortune. Of course, not all cultures are like this.
I have a different perspective on false hope. It is a mechanism of survival. To me, it isn't necessarily as bad as you are making it out to be if it helps people survive. Besides, that may just be what helps both humans and some animals continue on when things get really, really bad. It's like when some say religion or spirituality is always bad because it's not dealing with the "truth" and causes power grabs/political controls that are negative, but the human experience has a lot of unknowns to it. We don't know what it is like to be another person, so we are only trying to theorize with what we know from our own experiences. Who's to say that they never experienced what they experienced? You don't know for certain unless you were there or you were literally in their skin (depending on the topic).
*Note* I'll leave this one up, as it kind of rounds out the discussion. There are enough pieces from the other discussions to put things together. Just hate leaving up walls of text forever anymore.
On the focus on Earth lifeforms in general, fair enough. I must have read it as you cared more about sapience, but if I was wrong, I was wrong.
My spiritual beliefs/practices/path is less human-centric. However, I am still developing the foundational concepts rather than externalizing it yet. I do appear more nihilistic in the way I talk here, but in truth, I do care about life here on Earth, I just have no solutions to human malaise, so I don't feel talking about how we are all doomed does anything. I've never seen it do anything except make people avoid you, so I prefer to observe and figure out what I can do in my personal life instead. Someone on the internet once described my beliefs as sounding panentheistic. This was someone coming from the Pagan community. But, I don't really fit very well into that either. Regardless, I feel this forum isn't really conducive to spiritual discussions, so I don't like to delve into my beliefs here. Trying to explain what I believe can sometimes be a headache anyway. My beliefs are not nihilistic, though.
Fair enough about the death thing.
Well, but of course, being in the situation I've been in, I would not want to deny people's bodily autonomy. I think medically assisted suicide can be helpful for those that want to be relieved of pain/feel too old to continue on. Besides, funerals are for the living, and often people preserve others for their own benefit not the individual suffering.
Certainly, the Turkana will be affected, but do we know just how bad it will be yet? It seems like sometimes we understand the ramifications on our planet, and other times things take us by surprise. Besides, it would take a lot for the entire planet to be so hot as to be uninhabitable by anything. I still feel like some people won't see the full ramifications of this scenario in their lifetimes. Asteroids, a nuclear disaster of huge proportions, or disease could wipe us largely out before that point. I just feel there are too many unknowns to know for absolute certainty. Also, if most humans die, and fossil fuels cease to be used, what effect will that have on the planet? Nature is sometimes faster at adapting than humans, and with humans out of the way, who knows?
Yes, I will be witness to it, and I will be sad for humanity, that they failed. I will regret things I could have done better perhaps, and I will feel the pain and trauma of what happens. But, to me, my soul will continue. And if not, it's no big deal to me. I'm not a nihilist, but I'm also not as myopic on all topics in life. Besides, to me, from what my soul has experienced of humanity and other things I'd rather not get into, all this would have a familiarity to it. That's why I would in some ways be nonchalant. On the edge of the precipice, I'd be panicking. Once we are in the throes of it, I'd be fascinated and in awe of the force of nature to wipe out life itself, even in the midst of my pain.
Yes, it is easy to take a bird's eye view of suffering, but you still seem to be taking this idea that I haven't been face to face with adversity. There are so many things I haven't mentioned outside of my suicidalness. I'm just saying how I am within adversity, from my own experience. When something crazy is going on, I don't panic, I'm actually very calm. It's just that I'm slow in responding unless an external person urges me to take my own safety more seriously. When I'm in pain, obviously I'm miserable and my body is focused on the pain. But, eventually, you have to keep going on. That's what I do. My main problem is that I get panicked about the potential of problems (and only certain ones), not the actual problem itself. The calmness is great for helping others though. When catastrophe strikes, I may not be the first to take action, but I'll be the one to follow them around with blankets, first aid, etc, if I had the opportunity.
I do have mental health diagnoses, but I'd rather not share more than I have in that regard. I've had negative experiences with people diagnosing me over the internet. As far as dissociation goes, all I know is that I've always been in my own head more than in the physical world. I'm a daydreamer and a deep thinker, but that doesn't bode well for being very present (mentally or physically).
Yeah, mindfulness helps, but, each person is different, so it's not going to fix everything for everyone. I know some of what works for me and it isn't always that.
Agree.
Yes, US culture is very fragmented due to hyper-individualism and focus on consumption, fame, and fortune. Of course, not all cultures are like this.
I have a different perspective on false hope. It is a mechanism of survival. To me, it isn't necessarily as bad as you are making it out to be if it helps people survive. Besides, that may just be what helps both humans and some animals continue on when things get really, really bad. It's like when some say religion or spirituality is always bad because it's not dealing with the "truth" and causes power grabs/political controls that are negative, but the human experience has a lot of unknowns to it. We don't know what it is like to be another person, so we are only trying to theorize with what we know from our own experiences. Who's to say that they never experienced what they experienced? You don't know for certain unless you were there or you were literally in their skin (depending on the topic).