andmar74 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:15 pm
So Nato will not impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine. We are going to sit back and watch Russia slaughter civilians. Later on, if Russia chooses to attack another non-Nato country, we will do nothing. Finland? Moldova? Georgia?
It's painful..
What if Russia threatens to nuke a European city if the sanctions are not lifted? Ignore it?
Then if Russia does nuke a city, will we do nothing? When is the red line crossed?
Depends on the country. If it is a member of NATO, then treaty obligations would mean that other NATO countries would come to their defense. That would mean that NATO forces would come into direct conflict with Russian forces.
Right now, Ukraine is fighting as a proxy for the West. I don't blame them for being a little resentful of the West for being placed in that position.
I think oligarch is a buzzword I fail to see much difference between a rich person in Russia or a rich person in say the United States.
If you consider Putin a dictator that controls them if anything they have less power in Russia than in western countries.
(Axios) Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky accused NATO leadership of giving the "green light for further bombing of Ukrainian cities" by refusing at Friday's summit to establish a "no-fly" zone over Ukraine, saying those who oppose the move bear responsibility for civilian deaths going forward.
Why it matters: The furious new tone from Zelensky reflects his growing frustration with NATO's refusal to "close the sky" — a step he believes would change the trajectory of the war, but that NATO fears would spark a direct conflict with Russia.
Context: Implementation of a no-fly zone over Ukraine would likely require NATO forces to shoot down Russian aircraft and potentially take out air defense systems located on Russian territory.
It would be a major escalation between nuclear powers in order to defend a country — Ukraine — that is not a member of NATO for precisely this reason.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the topic of a no-fly zone was "mentioned" at Friday's summit, but that the allies once again agreed there should not be NATO aircraft operating over Ukraine's territory.
(Axios) New efforts by the Kremlin to bully the press and silence dissent are forcing independent media and social networks out of the country.
Why it matters: Russians are losing access to independent reporting about the war, while the West loses insight into an already isolated leader.
The people of Russia “have a right to know about the death, suffering and destruction being inflicted by their government on the people of Ukraine,” a White House spokesperson told Axios.
They also have a right “to know about the human costs of this senseless war to their own soldiers.”
Driving the news: Bloomberg and the BBC said they are suspending operations in Russia, while CNN, CBS and ABC ceased broadcasting in the country after lawmakers approved new legislation Friday that threatens to imprison journalists and individuals for up to 15 years if they publish what Moscow deems to be "fake" information about Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
(Politico) It has been a week since Russia’s invasion and — defying expectations — Ukraine is still independent. It has managed so far to withstand the Russian assault, which included attacks on multiple fronts aimed at Ukraine’s major cities, including its capital, Kyiv. As the scale and intensity of Russia’s aggression grows, the question of whether Ukraine’s fall is inevitable is a real one, given the reality that it is up against the most powerful army in Europe, and that it is fighting that army alone.
Military strategists know that battles are not solely decided by the resources, capabilities, or size of an army. There is also a critical human factor: The will to fight. Do the soldiers have a clear sense of the war’s purpose? Do they believe in their commanders? In their government? Do they feel the support of public opinion back home? In short, do they have a moral justification for the use of violence that war inevitably entails, especially when that violence is against civilians?
There is no question that Ukrainians have the will to fight and have already put up a heroic resistance. The Ukrainian military has performed admirably, and civilians are joining the fight, with many Ukrainians even returning from abroad to defend the country. Ordinary unarmed Ukrainians confront Russian soldiers. They ask them why they’ve come. They get in their way, as they did in Melitopol, chanting “fascists!” and “occupants!” as a Russian convoy tried to advance. In response, Russian soldiers fired their guns into the air.
But it appears to be different on the Russian side. Indeed, what has been noteworthy about this war so far has been the confusion and ambivalence among Russian soldiers, especially in their encounters with Ukrainian civilians. A key factor in understanding how Ukraine is still standing, then, is military morale, and especially the morale of the Russian army. Do they understand what they are fighting for? How long will they be willing to follow orders?
(Politico) As Russian President Vladimir Putin prepared to invade Ukraine, he claimed to be doing so to achieve “demilitarization and denazification” of the neighboring nation.
“Denazification” is a coded historical term, familiar to Ukrainians, other Eastern Europeans and certainly to Putin’s domestic audience. Putin is using it to justify his war against his neighbor, evoking the memory of the Soviet Union’s defense against Nazi Germany — one of the few episodes in the past 100 years in which Russia held anything close to the moral high ground. But when the Soviet Army rolled into Eastern Europe in 1944-45, liberation from Nazism was accompanied by imposition of Communist rule, usually by violence, and oppression that lasted decades. Today, in practice, the term means the replacement (probably killing or arresting) of Ukraine’s pro-Western, democratically elected leaders with a Kremlin puppet. Russian troops are trying to achieve that goal as I write.
The Kremlin has long argued that Ukrainians don’t really exist as a people, a point Putin himself has made – but if they do, they’re Nazis. Even by Putin’s standards, that’s grotesque. Ukraine’s leaders have committed themselves to democracy and evoke the values of the European Union. There are right-wing extremists in Ukraine, as in all European countries, but they are not major factors in Ukraine’s broader political culture. In fact, that culture, as the country struggles for its independence from Putin’s Russia, is crystalizing in a distinctly democratic fashion, following the path of other European countries that since 1945 and 1989 have acted in accordance with their better angels to put aside their nationalist and autocratic traditions.
The Kremlin propaganda machine cherry-picks Ukrainian history to amplify its nationalist side — which has at times been anti-Polish and antisemitic — conflate it with the whole of the country’s history, and then claim that Ukraine’s pro-European governments channel this narrative. From there follows the Kremlin propaganda line that Ukrainians are repressing Russians and Russian speakers, committing atrocities and genocide against them, and that Russia needs to “liberate” the victims of this supposed Ukrainian nationalism. It’s an attempt to apply the old Soviet and now Putinesque trope of Russia vs. Nazis because the Kremlin has no case against Ukraine.
Russian state media claim Moscow announces temporary ceasefire to let civilians leave two Ukraine cities
Russia’s state-controlled media claimed Saturday that the country’s Defense Ministry has announced a temporary ceasefire in Ukraine to allow civilians to leave the cities of Mariupol and Volnovakha.
It was not immediately clear whether Ukraine had agreed to a ceasefire or been made aware of Russia’s plans to announce one.
The ceasefire will reportedly begin at 10 a.m. Moscow time (2 a.m. ET).
Mariupol and Volnovakha lie about 30 miles (48 km) apart in Ukraine’s extreme southeast corner, near the Russian border. Mariupol is a port city on the Sea of Azov.
Russia Sends Its 'Heavy-Duty' Sukhoi Su-34 Fighter To Ukraine Ops
Source: DefenceAviationPost
Sukhoi Su-34 ‘Fullback’ strike aircraft are thought to have been sent by Russia to bolster its military offensive against Ukraine.
Online videos show up to seven SU-34 fighter-bombers flying over Kharkiv, Ukraine’s northeastern metropolis. Images of FAB-500 unguided bombs, apparently dropped by Su-34s on a civilian target in Kharkiv, were also widely circulated on the internet.
This was seen by experts as a foreshadowing of things to come, hinting that the Russian military has begun using tactical aviation for bombing operations. Only Su-25 assault planes were thought to be used for support missions previously.
Civilian evacuation delayed as Ukraine accuses Russia of breaching agreement to pause fire
Source: CNN
Ukrainian authorities halted evacuations from the besieged city of Mariupol on Saturday, accusing Russian forces of breaching an agreement to pause fire and give civilians safe passage out.
The Russian Ministry of Defense said earlier on Saturday it would stop bombarding Mariupol and another southeastern city, Volnovakha, which have endured days of heavy, indiscriminate shelling.
Residents there have hunkered down in basements without power and with limited supplies of food and water, volunteers gathering information from the ground told CNN.
*snip*
"Due to the fact that the Russians are not observing the ceasefire regime and continue shelling Mariupol and its outskirts, the evacuation of the population has been postponed for security reasons," governor of the Donetsk region, Pavlo Kyrylenko, announced on Twitter.
Putin: No-fly zone would be seen as "participation in the armed conflict"
Source: Axios
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Saturday that Moscow will consider a declaration of Ukraine as a no-fly zone by any third-party as "participation in the armed conflict."
Driving the news: Russia would view "any move in this direction" as an intervention that "will pose a threat to our service members," Putin said Saturday, speaking at a meeting with female pilots, AP reports.
"That very second, we will view them as participants of the military conflict, and it would not matter what members they are," Putin said.
The big picture: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged Western leaders to impose a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine, but the U.S. and other major powers have ruled out doing so as it could trigger a widespread war with nuclear power Russia.
"It would require, essentially, the U.S. military shooting down Russian planes and causing ... a potential direct war with Russia — something we want to avoid," White House press secretary Jen Psaki said on Thursday in ruling out creating a NFZ.
War in the air: Ukrainians cheer as they shoot down two Russian aircraft and destroy helicopter near Kyiv as president Zelensky berates Nato over lack of no-fly zone https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... otage.html
Shocking battlefield footage from today shows Ukrainians cheer and applaud as they appear to shoot down two Russian aircraft in the Chernihiv and Mykolaiv oblasts as forces were also earlier said to down a Russian helicopter near Kyiv.
This comes as Volodymyr Zelensky in an address this morning urged Ukrainians to continue fighting Putin's forces.
The comic-turned-wartime president then thundered 'what more is needed' to convince Joe Biden to enforce a no-fly zone – an action which could widen the war and suck in NATO – after he accused the West of cowardice in the face of Russian aggression.
Video from the frontlines, shared on social media, showed clips of an aircraft dropping rapidly from the air as cheers form Ukrainians could be heard in the background.
Those who shared the content online say the incident was filmed in Chernihiv, in northern Ukraine.
weatheriscool wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:12 pm
Putin: No-fly zone would be seen as "participation in the armed conflict"
Source: Axios
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Saturday that Moscow will consider a declaration of Ukraine as a no-fly zone by any third-party as "participation in the armed conflict."
Driving the news: Russia would view "any move in this direction" as an intervention that "will pose a threat to our service members," Putin said Saturday, speaking at a meeting with female pilots, AP reports.
"That very second, we will view them as participants of the military conflict, and it would not matter what members they are," Putin said.
The big picture: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged Western leaders to impose a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine, but the U.S. and other major powers have ruled out doing so as it could trigger a widespread war with nuclear power Russia.
"It would require, essentially, the U.S. military shooting down Russian planes and causing ... a potential direct war with Russia — something we want to avoid," White House press secretary Jen Psaki said on Thursday in ruling out creating a NFZ.
This should've been obvious, and I genuinely have to ask if Zelenskyy has gone mad if he seriously thought NATO was actually going to put a no-fly-zone in place. It's like he's asking to be vaporized under a mushroom cloud.
And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future
Yuli Ban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:08 pm
This should've been obvious, and I genuinely have to ask if Zelenskyy has gone mad if he seriously thought NATO was actually going to put a no-fly-zone in place. It's like he's asking to be vaporized under a mushroom cloud.
I think the Ukrainian mindset here is that they're already suffering war, so it makes no difference to them if the rest of Europe gets pounded by Russian airstrikes - and at least if NATO was at war with Russia, then there could be attacks on Russia itself and they (NATO) would be forced into boots on the ground military cooperation with Ukraine. And it probably also hints at an underlying scepticism that Russia would actually use nuclear weapons at all or else you're right, all he's asking for is to be vaporised.
Ukraine shares footage that appears to show a Russian helicopter gunship shot down in flames with a
Stinger portable air-defense system, say reports
Footage appears to show the moment a Russian gunship helicopter was shot down by a man-portable air-defense system (MANPADS) in the Kyiv Oblast province of Ukraine.
In the video, a helicopter immediately bursts into flames and crashes to the ground after being targeted by a weapon.
The footage was shared on Twitter by the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine on Saturday morning. "This is how the Russian occupiers are dying," the ministry said in the caption. "This time in a helicopter!"
-snip-
The helicopter in the footage appears to be a Mil Mi-24 Hind gunship, according to MailOnline.
This should've been obvious, and I genuinely have to ask if Zelenskyy has gone mad if he seriously thought NATO was actually going to put a no-fly-zone in place. It's like he's asking to be vaporized under a mushroom cloud.
He would be mad if he didn't ask for help when his country is being crushed by the Russian lunatics.
‘I Just Can’t Stand By’: American Veterans Join the Fight in Ukraine
“Sanctions can help, but sanctions can’t help right now, and people need help right now,” said the former Marine, who lives in Tampa Bay, Fla., and like other veterans interviewed for this article asked that only his first name be used for security reasons. “I can help right now.”
All across the United States, small groups of military veterans are gathering, planning and getting passports in order. After years of serving in smoldering occupations, trying to spread democracy in places that had only a tepid interest in it, many are hungry for what they see as a righteous fight to defend freedom against an autocratic aggressor with a conventional and target-rich army.
