Ukraine War Watch Thread

[wjfox]

[Certain Russian user]

"The Russian invasion has largely stalled" picture

This will soon change.

The neo-Nazi from "Azov" defending Mariupol, recently so proud and bold, are now filling the internet and airwaves with cries for help. The situation (who controls what inside the city) is not so clear, but their "control zone" has shrank dramatically. End (for much of them, the literal end) is near.

And as soon as Mariupol is liberated, the forces tied there in urban combat will likely be send somewhere else.

Chechens in Mariupol... think of this twist of history: once the fierce and fearless anti-Russian separatists, praised by the West, and now (just one generation later) the fierce and fearless Russian warriors:

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[wjfox]

[caltrek]

"The Russian invasion has largely stalled" picture

This will soon change.

The neo-Nazi from "Azov" defending Mariupol, recently so proud and bold, are now filling the internet and airwaves with cries for help...

What is so "neo-Nazi" about people defending their homeland?

Let us not forget who is attacking who. Russian government bans on calling this an invasion shouldn't blind us to what is really going on.

Of course, the ridiculous argument that a government headed by a Jew is "neo-Nazi" is somehow being put forth as a justification for this act of aggression. It is as if the existence of a small group of neo-Nazis in the U.S., or any other country, were used as a pretext for violent actions against such countries. Most of us recognize the absurdity of that illogic. Some of us remember Putin's propaganda support for Trump and the neo-Nazis that ally themselves with Trump. So, we see the hypocrisy of the present Russian position.

[erowind]

.

[Certain Russian user]

What is so "neo-Nazi" about people defending their homeland?

If not for the language barrier, I'd gladly show you a lot of videos with refugees from Mariupol and their opinions on such "defenders". By the way, these refugees are abundant (30 thousand per day) only since yesterday, when Russian army cleared the city outskirts, so "Azov" can no longer shot civilians (their badly needed human shield) fleeing the city.

[caltrek]

@Erowind: Thank you for that background regarding the Azov Battalion. I did a quick check of the internet and found this article:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Of particular note:

In 2015, Andriy Diachenko, the spokesperson for the regiment at the time said that 10 to 20 percent of Azov’s recruits were Nazis.

The unit has denied it adheres to Nazi ideology as a whole, but Nazi symbols such as the swastika and SS regalia are rife on the uniforms and bodies of Azov members.

So, apparently, even this unit is not dominated by neo-Nazis although they are a presence. Still, as a whole, the article does more or less corroborate your description. My main point, which you respected, that the presence of negligible presence of neo-Nazis should not be used to justify a full scale invasion still stands. A counterpoint that more should be done to distance ourselves from extremist elements of that battalion is valid.

[Outlook]

"The Russian invasion has largely stalled" picture

This will soon change.

The neo-Nazi from "Azov" defending Mariupol, recently so proud and bold, are now filling the internet and airwaves with cries for help...

What is so "neo-Nazi" about people defending their homeland?

Let us not forget who is attacking who. Russian government bans on calling this an invasion shouldn't blind us to what is really going on.

Of course, the ridiculous argument that a government headed by a Jew is "neo-Nazi" is somehow being put forth as a justification for this act of aggression. It is as if the existence of a small group of neo-Nazis in the U.S., or any other country, were used as a pretext for violent actions against such countries. Most of us recognize the absurdity of that illogic. Some of us remember Putin's propaganda support for Trump and the neo-Nazis that ally themselves with Trump. So, we see the hypocrisy of the present Russian position.

You can't reason with them caltrek, he'll just say whatever the Kremlin wants him to say. Russian bombs can tear apart pregnant mothers and children as they have and he'll feel no remorse nor sympathy for it, only deflecting blame and parroting what his government says, much like actual Nazis.

Russian nationalism, in the end, has ruined Russia. Economically stagnated them, cut them off from the rest of the world. Putin's economic nationalization and frankly idiotic economic measures will ensure investment is sparse after their invasion fails. Hundreds of thousands of intelligent Russians are leaving, while those who can't really think for themselves remain. Even China and India are being hesitant to support them. Soon Russia will be bought out by China, and this once great nation will become a population declining backwater. Or rather, continue to be.

People saying it will lead to western collapse are coping, as the west has plenty of alternative options, all those options promoting the US position and economy. Russia has also justified US military spending and its maintenance of a world order in a few days. Now we'll see countries who are aligned against China and Russia geopolitically-- which is to say almost all their neighbors-- seek stronger western military support and ties.

I should say I feel sorry for the average Russian suffering from sanctions and a ruined economy, but having seen their support of Russian atrocities in Syria, I care much less.

[caltrek]

What is so "neo-Nazi" about people defending their homeland?

If not for the language barrier, I'd gladly show you a lot of videos with refugees from Mariupol and their opinions on such "defenders". By the way, these refugees are abundant (30 thousand per day) only since yesterday, when Russian army cleared the city outskirts, so "Azov" can no longer shot civilians (their badly needed human shield) fleeing the city.

As I have expressed in the previous post, I do not support any actions of the Azov Battalion that are motivated by neo-Nazis ideologies. Still, let us remember that there would be no need to "defend" Mariupol were it not being attacked by the Russian military in the first place. While refugees might have legitimate reason to be angry at the Azov Battalion, they would not be refugees in the first place had Russian forces stayed out the Ukraine.

[caltrek]

Ukraine, Russia Negotiate Peace Terms, but Fighting Carries On
by Cain Burdeau
March 16, 2022

https://www.courthousenews.com/ukraine- ... arries-on/

Extract::

(Courthouse News) This week, Zelenskyy's government resumed ceasefire talks with Russia and as a major concession Kyiv is considering agreeing to not join NATO in exchange for a withdrawal of Russian troops.

Mykhailo Podoliak, one of Zelenskyy’s top advisers, told PBS that the two sides were working to get Russian President Vladimir Putin and Zelenskyy to meet in the coming days, Ukrinform, a Ukrainian state news agency reported.

“The only option to end this war is direct talks between the two presidents, and that is what we are working on with these peace talks. We are working on documents that the presidents will be able to discuss further and sign,” he said. He added that he thought a ceasefire could be called soon.
The Financial Times reported that negotiators had drawn up a tentative 15-point plan to end the war. Ukraine renouncing NATO membership is a cornerstone to the deal.

A lot was covered in this article, including more discussion of the prospects for a negotiated settlement in addition to what is discussed above. One other point made:

Pro-Russian political analysts accuse Washington of deploying a strategy to weaken Russia by luring it into a protracted and catastrophic conflict over Ukraine. A possible invasion by Russia of Ukraine and other former Soviet bloc states has been a subject of speculation and concern for years.

caltrek's comment: What a pattern. Absolutely no assignment of responsibility to the Russian government for this fiasco. Instead, a resort to “the devil made them do it” evasion. How pathetic. At any rate, let us hope that a negotiated settlement is reached soon.

[wjfox]

The oligarchs are fleeing.

[caltrek]

^^^I couldn't find a whole lot to corroborate this Tweet. I did find an article by EZI News (see link below). Unfortunately, I am not familiar with EZI News, so I can't vouch for them as a source. In any event, I have extracted some reasonable sounding observations:

https://www.ezinews.com/strange-flights ... in-russia/

(EZI News) A number of private jets were spotted leaving Moscow for Dubai this morning. Which makes sense: After Putin’s nutty speech yesterday about cleansing Russia of pro-western “traitors,” if I were a Russian billionaire I’d want to get as far away from Moscow as I could ASAP.

...note that some of these flights might be picking people up and bringing them *to* Moscow. The planes are scheduled for return, in any case...

It’s also curious that they’d leave their transponders on, broadcasting their movements to the world...

at least one source says the movement of the Russian planes isn’t that unusual. Their flight paths may be a product of so much foreign airspace having recently been closed to Russian jets...

caltrek's comment: All of this underlines my frustration with relying on Tweets from Twitter. I mean, who in the hell is Oliver Alexander?

In the cited article, EZI News also relies on other Tweets, some of which are sources that are not clearly identified and thus hard to judge in terms of reliability. I suppose some useful information can be extracted from such sources, but I personally take the information presented with a grain of salt. Especially when "expert" sources are cited where it is hard to determine the qualifications of those cited.

[Certain Russian user]

Another demilitarised Ukrainian SU-25:

blocked/14101?single

[caltrek]

Another demilitarised Ukrainian SU-25:...

You know, for a guy who was complaining not long ago about people gloating over Russian military casualties, you sure seem to like gloating over Ukranian military casualties. Perhaps if you showed more respect, you would earn more respect.

[weatheriscool]

Russia warns United States: we have the might to put you in your place
Source: Yahoo News

LONDON (Reuters) -Russia warned the United States on Thursday that Moscow had the might to put the world's pre-eminent superpower in its place and accused the West of stoking a wild Russophobic plot to tear Russia apart.

Dmitry Medvedev, who served as president from 2008 to 2012 and is now deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council, said the United States had stoked "disgusting" Russophobia in an attempt to force Russia to its knees.

"It will not work - Russia has the might to put all of our brash enemies in their place," Medvedev said.

Since Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, the United States and its European and Asian allies have slapped sanctions on Russian leaders, companies and businessmen, cutting off Russia from much of the world economy.

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/russia-put-enemi ... 53510.html

[raklian]

"It will not work - Russia has the might to put all of our brash enemies in their place," Medvedev said.

[Certain Russian user]

Another demilitarised Ukrainian SU-25:...

You know, for a guy who was complaining not long ago about people gloating over Russian military casualties, you sure seem to like gloating over Ukranian military casualties. Perhaps if you showed more respect, you would earn more respect.

Let's be honest here. I do not "complain", neither I wish, nor I expect to earn any respect from local public (with very few important exceptions). Moreover, during wartime do not expect from me any empathy for the destroyed enemy. He chose his way, he got what he deserved, there is nothing more to say here. Respect for the dead? Well, yes, to some degree, that's why I'm not going to post the Ukrainian corpses (and my telegram feed is full of them).

[caltrek]

Another demilitarised Ukrainian SU-25:...

You know, for a guy who was complaining not long ago about people gloating over Russian military casualties, you sure seem to like gloating over Ukranian military casualties. Perhaps if you showed more respect, you would earn more respect.

Let's be honest here. I do not "complain", neither I wish, nor I expect to earn any respect from local public (with very few important exceptions). Moreover, during wartime do not expect from me any empathy for the destroyed enemy. He chose his way, he got what he deserved, there is nothing more to say here. Respect for the dead? Well, yes, to some degree, that's why I'm not going to post the Ukrainian corpses (and my telegram feed is full of them).

Ukrainians "got what they deserved" for defending their homeland?

I get the concern about neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but as I (and others) have pointed out before, they hardly dominate Ukrainian government policy. That should be abundantly obvious from, among other things, the fact that the Ukrainian government is led by a Jew. For the most part, these people do not deserve the treatment the Russian government under Putin is handing out to them.

I can understand a wartime desire on your part to point out propaganda based on lies for the lack of veracity therein contained. As a piece of friendly advice, I would express to you what Macron indicated to Putin: don't lie to yourself.

At any rate, thank you for avoiding the posting of corpses.

[Yuli Ban]

[Certain Russian user]

I get the concern about neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but as I (and others) have pointed out before, they hardly dominate Ukrainian government policy. That should be abundantly obvious from, among other things, the fact that the Ukrainian government is led by a Jew. For the most part, these people do not deserve the treatment the Russian government under Putin is handing out to them.

And what's so special about Jews that they can not themselves be Nazis? Or at least fund Nazis (including that same Azov battalion) as Ukrainian oligarchs (ethnic Jews) really do? We live in postmodern, everything is so mixed and twisted...

Here is current Ukrainian TV. The speaker says: "Let me quote Adolf Eichmann, to destroy the nation one should start from children, so that they will not grow and will not avenge... we need victory, if this require to kill your (Russian) families, I'm going to be first to start..." Fascist enough? Or still a "single irrelevant case"? The name of this Ukrainian Nazi, btw, is Fakhruddin Sharafmal:

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