Ukraine War Watch Thread

[caltrek]

[weatheriscool]

Putin should be removed from power and thrown in prison for the rest of his life. He is a criminal.

[Cyber_Rebel]

"Sovereignty" doesn't exist for any state, all states are an unjust monopoly on violence over their populations. Ukraine isn't "free." If freedom means the right to war with others, or the right to be forced into slavery, or the right to starve, or the right to have no binding participation in governance of ones community, or the right to be denied property, or the right to be bombarded with information warfare and turned into a product to be sold on a marketplace, or the right to be dehumanized for the face of realpolitik, than perhaps "imprisonment" would be better.

Okay, let's say someone doesn't share your ideal and desires the land and resources on which your tribe decides to occupy then? You state you're "free" while said state states that the resources it wants don't belong to you, but now to them. I'd assume you'd want the right to defend yourselves, no? Or are you to just die and possibly be raped and tortured based on nothing but principles? What's stated as propaganda isn't always such, and honestly isn't even always untruthful.

If a band of people with shared culture, values, and identity decided to form a state, why must it in "principle" be violent? A nation state itself really at its face value, is just a much larger conglomerate of old tribes and really a natural outcome for how humanity does things. It's at least less violent than hunter gatherer or prior "classical" days, and safety and guarantees of protection are as good as any other, i.e. better than none. "Freedom" to do an action or "freedom from" also needs some clarification, as most societies operate on the latter. Most understand that being in society means giving up some "personal" freedoms in the social contract, in exchange for freedom from other inconveniences. Not being able to do such and such (engage in crime) in exchange for protection and (hopefully) better livelihood.

Yes, you could live off the grid and just be done with all the so-called nonsense. But why are the bigger states obligated to respect personal sovereignty, over national interest? And yes, this includes the rights of nations to defend themselves from aggressors, be they independent actors or states themselves, as it aligns with safeguarding national interest. Not saying it's right or wrong by the way but asking why they should.

Before anyone says something foolish, all of these principles apply to both sides, literally all of them, even the ones not quoted in this post. From the mouths of Russian, Ukrainian or western statesmen, pundit and mogul there is no winner, there is no just side to support, there is no defender, there is no liberation, there is no conquest, there is no truth, there is no life. There is only hell, war is hell, supporting imperial war is hell. If the Ukrainian state were truly innocent it wouldn't receive an iota of American military aid or NATO's attention. If you support the death of working class people through the continued armament of either side, through the continued rhetoric of either side, through the continued combat of either side, you are the problem! The only winning answer is not to play and or oppose both sides.

Like I asked above, the question comes down to why they should. If the Russians or any other imperialist state doesn't respect the sovereignty of a country, what makes you think being "stateless" would be any better? As for Ukraine, what should we be doing then? Leave them to their devices and allow them to be brutally conquered? They have NATO's attention due to the aggressiveness of their neighbor, it's pretty ironic that Ukraine actually didn't even want to join NATO until Russia decided to become an aggressor first. The same is true of course for Finland and Sweden. Should NATO start telling countries who wish to join for security & protection no? People act as if NATO is openly conquering these countries, as opposed to adhering to its (debatable) open door policy.

To do nothing also accomplishes nothing. Capitalism, at least on the whole can't even be debated here, because everything Russia has done literally killed its own markets, and I very highly doubt the companies in the West which pulled out truly wanted to before this war started. Why pull out of any potential market for capital creation? If it's to be blamed, I'd blame it on the Russian oligarchs & Putin himself, rather than the ones sending arms to the Ukraine. No one aside from them, and perhaps their ultranationalist supporters, really wanted this.

The increased military funding is indeed annoying, but then again, so was Russia invading Ukraine and starting this whole mess to begin with. Sorry, but I'm not supporting refugees being displaced for no reason of their own other than some Fascistic revisionist wanting to recreate some ridiculous Russo Empire on the bones of Ukraine and the Baltics. Not stating you do, either, but to do nothing ends with that reality. The Ukraine working class also matters too, and it's something socialist in other countries need to think about whenever these "oppose all war" takes come up. If their country was invaded and bombed, war crimes of all sorts committed, would their rhetoric remain the same I wonder?

[Yuli Ban]

[wjfox]

[weatheriscool]

China rejects sanctions as Ukraine war tops summit agenda
Source: AP

By LORNE COOK, SAMUEL PETREQUIN, KEN MORITSUGU

BRUSSELS (AP) — China on Friday renewed its criticism of Western sanctions against Russia, as top European Union officials sought assurances from Beijing that it would not help Moscow circumvent the economic measures imposed in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry also laid blame for the war in Ukraine at least partially on the United States for pushing to expand the NATO military alliance closer to Russia’s borders. Twenty-one of the EU’s 27 countries are also NATO member states.

At a virtual summit, European Council President Charles Michel, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell sought signs from Chinese President and Communist Party leader Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang that Beijing would help to end the war in Ukraine.

“China disapproves of solving problems through sanctions, and we are even more opposed to unilateral sanctions and long-arm jurisdiction that have no basis in international law,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said at a daily briefing as they met.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 91d226d353

[weatheriscool]

Putin should resign in disgrace! He has turned russia into a fucking joke and has truly fucked his own people. If he had any honor or respect for his country that is what he would do.

[weatheriscool]

Ukrainian Attack Helicopters Just Slipped Into Russia And Blew Up A Fuel Depot
Source: Forbes

In an incredible feat of airmanship and planning, a pair of Ukrainian Mi-24 attack helicopters slipped across the border with Russia on Friday morning and lobbed 25-pound unguided rockets at a fuel depot in Belgorod, igniting a blaze that burned through the daylight hours.

It’s not the first time Ukrainian forces have struck military facilities in Belgorod, which lies just 25 miles north of the border and 50 miles from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Russian troops have besieged Kharkiv since early in Russia’s six-week-old assault on Ukraine.

Three days before the Mi-24 raid, the Ukrainian army struck a separate depot in Belgorod with Tochka ballistic missiles. But the Friday raid was special. Not only for its impact on the Kremlin’s fuel stocks near Kharkiv—but also for its psychological effect.

A member of Russia’s emergency services wasn’t shy about the damage the Ukrainian Mil crews inflicted. “There are 16 tanks in the seat of the fire,” the official told state media. “The fire occurs in eight tanks with fuel and gasoline, occupying two thousand cubic meters, there is a threat of the fire spreading to another eight.”

Read more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... uel-depot/

[Maximus]

Ukrainian Attack Helicopters Just Slipped Into Russia And Blew Up A Fuel Depot
Source: Forbes

In an incredible feat of airmanship and planning, a pair of Ukrainian Mi-24 attack helicopters slipped across the border with Russia on Friday morning and lobbed 25-pound unguided rockets at a fuel depot in Belgorod, igniting a blaze that burned through the daylight hours.

It’s not the first time Ukrainian forces have struck military facilities in Belgorod, which lies just 25 miles north of the border and 50 miles from the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Russian troops have besieged Kharkiv since early in Russia’s six-week-old assault on Ukraine.

Three days before the Mi-24 raid, the Ukrainian army struck a separate depot in Belgorod with Tochka ballistic missiles. But the Friday raid was special. Not only for its impact on the Kremlin’s fuel stocks near Kharkiv—but also for its psychological effect.

A member of Russia’s emergency services wasn’t shy about the damage the Ukrainian Mil crews inflicted. “There are 16 tanks in the seat of the fire,” the official told state media. “The fire occurs in eight tanks with fuel and gasoline, occupying two thousand cubic meters, there is a threat of the fire spreading to another eight.”

Read more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... uel-depot/

100% deserved, Russia shouldn't be able to level cities in Ukraine without getting a taste of what war really means. That said, how wise is it to poke a nuclear-armed bear? I think Ukraine should lay off strikes in Russian territory, this can only turn the local Russian population against Ukraine, and provoke further escalation Putin.

[caltrek]

According to the United Nations, Over 4.1 Million Refugees Have Fled Ukraine Since Russian Invasion Began
by Erin Doherty
April 1, 2022

https://www.axios.com/ukraine-refugees- ... 73dca.html

Introduction:

(Axios) More than 4.1 million refugees have fled Ukraine since Russia launched its unprovoked invasion, according to United Nations refugee agency data.

State of play: The U.N. refugee agency has labeled the exodus the fastest-growing refugee crisis in Europe since World War II.

• Some 6.5 million people are internally displaced, the UN migration agency said last week.

• "Among the responsibilities of those who wage war, everywhere in the world, is the suffering inflicted on civilians who are forced to flee their homes," tweeted U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees Filippo Grandi.

• "The war in Ukraine is so devastating that 10 million have fled — either displaced inside the country, or as refugees abroad."

Refugee destinations abroad are shown in the article as follows as of March 30, 2022:

Poland 2.3 million
Romania 609,000
Moldavia 387,000
Hungary 365,000
Russia 351,000
Slovakia 281,000
Belarus 11,000

Data is cited as being supplied by UNHCR.

[andmar74]

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine ... ussia-war/

US will reportedly help Ukraine by sending Soviet-made tanks

The allies are delivering more offensive weapons now to Ukraine, this could be challenging for Russia, even if they shift focus to the Eastern part of Ukraine.

[Xyls]

[Xyls]

Ah some lovely work of the Russian "liberators" from the town of Bucha after their rout at the Battle of Kyiv. Also appears that Putin may get indicted at The Hague...

[Xyls]

Why Russia lost the Battle of Kyiv:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... aster.html

[raklian]

This should be going to the Basic Income discussion thread but I suspect this is a direct consequence of this war.






https://basicincome.org/news/2022/04/th ... t-program/

[weatheriscool]

Entire Kyiv region liberated from enemy
Source: Interfax Ukraine

On Saturday, April 2, the Armed Forces of Ukraine completely liberated Kyiv region from Russian invaders, Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine Anna Maliar has said.

"Irpin, Bucha, Hostomel and the entire Kyiv region have been liberated from the enemy," she said on Facebook on Saturday evening.

Read more: https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/820485.html

[weatheriscool]

Ukraine invasion: Secret 'punishment from above' drone army taking on Russia
Source: Agence France Presse via The Daily Telegraph


April 2, 2022 - 8:04PM

At a secret location in Ukrainian city of Lviv, the windows taped up to ward off unwanted attention, underground hobbyists improvise deadly drones bound for the front line of the war against Russia.

On a cluttered table the X-shaped frame of one drone stands among bundles of plastic propellers and sachets of minuscule screws. Soon it will take flight with its payload: a wine bottle-sized antitank grenade designed to plunge on Russian armour.

Two other drones are already affixed with quad propellers, their squat bodies gaping with miniature bomb bays to rain explosives on Russian infantry challenging Ukrainian defenders to the north and east.

One more — the shape of a stealth bomber, the size of a bird of prey — will conduct reconnaissance missions for artillery squads, spotting targets and marking them for incoming fire.

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 9f2c42a814

[Yuli Ban]

It's like I've been saying; we're witnessing the future of warfare as we speak. Drones are just the first act, but they'll remain the biggest aspect.

[Cyber_Rebel]

Tell me again, just how this war is two sided...

Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas
Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukr ... lled-areas

(Warsaw) – Human Rights Watch has documented several cases of Russian military forces committing laws-of-war violations against civilians in occupied areas of the Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and Kyiv regions of Ukraine. These include a case of repeated rape; two cases of summary execution, one of six men, the other of one man; and other cases of unlawful violence and threats against civilians between February 27 and March 14, 2022. Soldiers were also implicated in looting civilian property, including food, clothing, and firewood. Those who carried out these abuses are responsible for war crimes.

“The cases we documented amount to unspeakable, deliberate cruelty and violence against Ukrainian civilians,” said Hugh Williamson, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Rape, murder, and other violent acts against people in the Russian forces’ custody should be investigated as war crimes.”

-------------------------------------------------------

Kharkiv Rape

On March 13, a Russian soldier beat and repeatedly raped Olha [not her real name], a 31-year-old woman in Malaya Rohan, a village in the Kharkiv region that Russian forces controlled at the time.

Russian soldiers entered the village on February 25, Olha said. That day, about 40 villagers, mostly women and girls, were sheltering in the basement of a local school. She was there with her 5-year-old daughter, her mother, her 13-year-old sister, and her 24-year-old brother.

At around midnight on March 13, a Russian soldier forcibly entered the school, Olha said: “He broke glass windows at the entrance to the school and banged on the door.” A guard opened the door.

The soldier, who carried an assault rifle and a pistol, went into the basement and ordered everyone there to line up. The woman stood in the line holding her daughter, who was asleep. He told her to give him the girl, but she refused. He told her brother to come forward and ordered the rest of the group to kneel, or, he said, he would shoot everyone in the basement.

The soldier ordered her brother to follow him to help find food. They left and came back an hour or two later. The soldier sat down on the floor.

“People started asking if they could go to the bathroom and he let them, in groups of two and three,” Olha said. After that, people started settling down for the night. The soldier approached her family and told her to follow him.

The soldier took her to a classroom on the second floor, where he pointed a gun at her and told her to undress. She said: “He told me to give him [oral sex]. The whole time he held the gun near my temple or put it into my face. Twice he shot at the ceiling and said it was to give me more ‘motivation.’” He raped her, then told her to sit on a chair.

She said she was getting very cold in the unheated school and asked if she could get dressed, but the soldier told her she should only put on her top, not her pants or underwear. “While I was putting on my clothes, the soldier told me that he was Russian, that his name was [name withheld] and that he was 20. He said that I reminded him of a girl he went to school with.”

The soldier told her to go to the basement and get her things, so that she could stay in the classroom with him. She refused. “I knew my daughter would cry if she saw me,” she said. The soldier got a knife and told her to do so as he said if she wanted to see her child again. The soldier raped her again, put a knife to her throat and cut the skin on her neck. He also cut her cheek with the knife and cut off some of her hair. He hit her on the face with a book and repeatedly slapped her. Photographs that she shared with Human Rights Watch, dated March 19 and 20, show cut marks and bruising on her neck and face.

[wjfox]

Ah some lovely work of the Russian "liberators" from the town of Bucha after their rout at the Battle of Kyiv. Also appears that Putin may get indicted at The Hague...

Tell me again, just how this war is two sided...

Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas
Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukr ... lled-areas

(Warsaw) – Human Rights Watch has documented several cases of Russian military forces committing laws-of-war violations against civilians in occupied areas of the Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and Kyiv regions of Ukraine. These include a case of repeated rape; two cases of summary execution, one of six men, the other of one man; and other cases of unlawful violence and threats against civilians between February 27 and March 14, 2022. Soldiers were also implicated in looting civilian property, including food, clothing, and firewood. Those who carried out these abuses are responsible for war crimes.

“The cases we documented amount to unspeakable, deliberate cruelty and violence against Ukrainian civilians,” said Hugh Williamson, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Rape, murder, and other violent acts against people in the Russian forces’ custody should be investigated as war crimes.”

-------------------------------------------------------

Kharkiv Rape

On March 13, a Russian soldier beat and repeatedly raped Olha [not her real name], a 31-year-old woman in Malaya Rohan, a village in the Kharkiv region that Russian forces controlled at the time.

Russian soldiers entered the village on February 25, Olha said. That day, about 40 villagers, mostly women and girls, were sheltering in the basement of a local school. She was there with her 5-year-old daughter, her mother, her 13-year-old sister, and her 24-year-old brother.

At around midnight on March 13, a Russian soldier forcibly entered the school, Olha said: “He broke glass windows at the entrance to the school and banged on the door.” A guard opened the door.

The soldier, who carried an assault rifle and a pistol, went into the basement and ordered everyone there to line up. The woman stood in the line holding her daughter, who was asleep. He told her to give him the girl, but she refused. He told her brother to come forward and ordered the rest of the group to kneel, or, he said, he would shoot everyone in the basement.

The soldier ordered her brother to follow him to help find food. They left and came back an hour or two later. The soldier sat down on the floor.

“People started asking if they could go to the bathroom and he let them, in groups of two and three,” Olha said. After that, people started settling down for the night. The soldier approached her family and told her to follow him.

The soldier took her to a classroom on the second floor, where he pointed a gun at her and told her to undress. She said: “He told me to give him [oral sex]. The whole time he held the gun near my temple or put it into my face. Twice he shot at the ceiling and said it was to give me more ‘motivation.’” He raped her, then told her to sit on a chair.

She said she was getting very cold in the unheated school and asked if she could get dressed, but the soldier told her she should only put on her top, not her pants or underwear. “While I was putting on my clothes, the soldier told me that he was Russian, that his name was [name withheld] and that he was 20. He said that I reminded him of a girl he went to school with.”

The soldier told her to go to the basement and get her things, so that she could stay in the classroom with him. She refused. “I knew my daughter would cry if she saw me,” she said. The soldier got a knife and told her to do so as he said if she wanted to see her child again. The soldier raped her again, put a knife to her throat and cut the skin on her neck. He also cut her cheek with the knife and cut off some of her hair. He hit her on the face with a book and repeatedly slapped her. Photographs that she shared with Human Rights Watch, dated March 19 and 20, show cut marks and bruising on her neck and face.

"We care about civilians." – Certain Russian user