Donald Trump news and discussions

[weatheriscool]

Trump is fucked. I wouldn't be shocked if he got 20 years or more.


This guy shouldn't be allowed to campaign.

[weatheriscool]

[weatheriscool]

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[wjfox]

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[caltrek]

The Espionage Act's Serious Flaws Are Not at Issue in the Case of Donald Trump
by Jameel Jaffer
June 10, 2023

Introduction:

(Common Dreams) The revelation that the Justice Department is investigating former President Donald Trump for violations of the Espionage Act has provoked a new wave of criticism of that century-old law, with some calling on Congress to narrow the law and at least one senator declaring that it should be repealed altogether. There are in fact very good reasons to criticize the Espionage Act — a law that has cast a dark shadow over free speech and press freedom in this country since its passage — and compelling reasons why Congress should overhaul it. That the law is being used against Trump, however, isn’t one of them.

This much the law’s new critics have right: The Espionage Act is wildly overbroad. We know this from experience. Former President Woodrow Wilson signed the measure into law in 1917 and immediately began using it as an instrument of political repression. During and after the First World War, his administration used the Espionage Act to prosecute thousands of people for legitimate political speech….

Congress amended the Espionage Act after the Second World War, but the amended law, like the original, criminalizes a wide range of activity bearing little resemblance to espionage as the term is usually understood.

Further Extract:

Trump isn’t a whistleblower or reporter or publisher. There is no serious argument that he retained top secret records so that he could inform the public about government misconduct. The concerns that have led civil liberties and press freedom groups to fear and condemn the Espionage Act simply aren’t present here. Indeed, if the facts are essentially as the Justice Department asserts them to be — that Trump left the White House with scores of top-secret documents, that he failed to adequately secure them, that he refused to return them even after receiving a request from the National Archives and Records Administration and a subpoena from the Department of Justice — even a substantially narrowed criminal regime that better accounted for the First Amendment interests of whistleblowers, journalists and the public would almost certainly reach the conduct that Trump is said to have engaged in here.

Read more here: https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/t ... act-abuse

[caltrek]

Should be a little careful here. Suppose somebody replaced "Republicans" with "Jews."

It is not Republicans that are the real problem. The real problem are leaders like Trump and House Speaker McCarthy as well as ultraconservative news outlets like Fox News. These opinion makers put forth a logically incoherent narrative calculated to appeal to emotions and not logical analysis. Many otherwise decent and well-meaning people are duped by this form of propaganda. Of course, at the fringe are fascists and White Supremacists, but not all Republicans belong to that fringe

[Cyber_Rebel]

It is not Republicans that are the real problem.

Yes, because George W. Bush Jr., Dick Cheyney, and Richard Nixon were truly the epitome of well-meaning people. The fact of the matter is Trump, and his ilk are the result and creation of a highly corrupt party and by extension system to begin with. You will get more like him simply by not addressing these issues within a highly corrupt structure. I do agree with the propaganda mill that is Fox News, but you should be more aware than most of how long that's been going on. I also don't believe that the "dupped voters" are as innocent as people make them out to be, as their representatives are in a lot of cases appealing to their core instincts.

I usually don't pay much attention to the happenings of the political world that much these days, because it just seems to be same old circulation of nonsense and focusing on nonsensical things.

The Republicans would most certainly like to be viewed as victims (ie Jews) I'm sure, but one has to wonder, what good is their ideology if there is one, and has it ever truly benefitted anyone other than themselves? Has it improved the livelihood of others, advanced society in any meaningful way, helped the planet? I'd extend this to some Democrats as well. The United States is simply a backwater politically.

[weatheriscool]

Trump kept 8 documents so sensitive even their access codes are secret, indictment shows
Business insider

Donald Trump didn't keep just any secret records. He stashed away what look to be some choice souvenirs — classified maps of a foreign country, high-resolution imagery likely from US spy satellites, and even more highly sensitive ones about nuclear secrets, his indictment alleges.

There are 31 classified documents recovered by FBI agents that are at the epicenter of the case. The federal indictment alleges Trump "willfully" retained and then failed to return those documents back to the government after his presidency ended.

Trump, for his part, has claimed he was legally entitled to keep these records via the Presidential Records Act, which says an administration's documents belong to the government with exceptions for personal notes and journals
The fifth document listed by prosecutors, for example, is top secret, and bears two additional rules: it can not be shared with US allies (NORFORN) and is revealing enough of spying methods that the originating agency controls its further dissemination (ORCON). But right after the TOP SECRET classification level, two other access codes were redacted by prosecutors. All we are able to surmise comes from the description offered: "Document dated June 2020 concerning nuclear capabilities of a foreign country."
Federal prosecutors listed 31 highly sensitive documents they recovered via an FBI search of Mar-a-Lago in August, 2022.
snip

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-k ... ent-2023-6

[caltrek]

It is not Republicans that are the real problem.

Yes, because George W. Bush Jr., Dick Cheyney, and Richard Nixon were truly the epitome of well-meaning people.

No, because they are also past leaders of the party. Not the sort I am talking bout.

The fact of the matter is Trump, and his ilk are the result and creation of a highly corrupt party and by extension system to begin with. You will get more like him simply by not addressing these issues within a highly corrupt structure. I do agree with the propaganda mill that is Fox News,

Here, we agree.

but you should be more aware than most of how long that's been going on. I also don't believe that the "dupped voters" are as innocent as people make them out to be, as their representatives are in a lot of cases appealing to their core instincts.

Well, you say "core instincts" and I say to their emotions.

I usually don't pay much attention to the happenings of the political world that much these days, because it just seems to be same old circulation of nonsense and focusing on nonsensical things.

The Republicans would most certainly like to be viewed as victims (ie Jews) I'm sure, but one has to wonder, what good is their ideology if there is one, and has it ever truly benefitted anyone other than themselves? Has it improved the livelihood of others, advanced society in any meaningful way, helped the planet? I'd extend this to some Democrats as well. The United States is simply a backwater politically.

Not much to disagree with here.

Edit: I am not saying that they are victims or viewed as victims (except perhaps in the sense that those who have been duped are victims), only that we should avoid sweeping generalizations about people and should instead concentrate on ideology and on manipulations carried out by their leadership. I don't think they would like to be viewed as dupes.

[weatheriscool]

[Cyber_Rebel]

Well, you say "core instincts" and I say to their emotions.

I suppose one could say that it's a similar meaning, these people don't adhere to logical inquiry if it conflicts with their worldview, and rather than challenging that worldview in an open forum, GOP leaders instead stoke those base emotions creating a further environment where logic is dismissed.

Edit: I am not saying that they are victims or viewed as victims (except perhaps in the sense that those who have been duped are victims), only that we should avoid sweeping generalizations about people and should instead concentrate on ideology and on manipulations carried out by their leadership. I don't think they would like to be viewed as dupes.

I might've misunderstood the intent of your post Caltrek, but what would you suggest for the future then of the Republican Party? What would be your ideal outcome if I might ask, assuming such insane rhetoric from their more contentious leadership were stifled somehow?

[weatheriscool]

Ron DeSantis: 'I would've been court-martialed for taking classified documents'

Ron DeSantis suggested he would have been “court-martialed in a New York minute” if he had kept classified documents while in the Navy, in a veiled attack on Donald Trump.

The Florida governor, 44, has been careful to walk a delicate line as he challenges Mr Trump for the Republican party’s 2024 presidential nomination, as he is wary of alienating the former president’s base.

Mr DeSantis initially expressed outrage at the Justice Department’s decision to charge the 76-year-old former president with illegally keeping top-secret files after he left the White House.

But in remarks on Friday night, Mr DeSantis implicitly stressed the gravity of his rival’s alleged crimes, even as he condemned the “weaponisation” of the justice system.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ron-desantis ... 36688.html

[weatheriscool]

[weatheriscool]

Trump's "peril is extreme": Former federal prosecutor on the historic Mar-a-Lago indictment
https://www.salon.com/2023/06/12/never- ... ndictment/

As the entire world now knows, Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith's sweeping indictment of Donald Trump on a range of charges relating to the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation was released in full last Friday afternoon. Numerous explications of this remarkable document are available from many different media sources; criminologist and Trump expert Gregg Barak supplied an analysis for Salon over the weekend. Even former Attorney General Bill Barr, a staunch defender of Trump's dubious conduct while in office, now forecasts a dire legal future for the embattled former president.

But I still have questions; I imagine we all do. On Sunday I reached out to another frequent Salon contributor, former federal prosecutor Dennis Aftergut, now of counsel to Lawyers Defending American Democracy, a self-explanatory nonprofit. I wanted Dennis to share not just his legal expertise, although that's extremely important, but also his larger, atmospheric sense of this extraordinary indictment and its historical moment. We held this conversation by email; I have edited Dennis' responses here and there for clarity, but have not altered the substance of his remarks.

I've read a fair number of criminal indictments in 30 years as a journalist, and by any standard this one seems extraordinary. I'd like to ask you, as a former federal prosecutor, how you perceived it in a number of different ways. First of all, what was your general impression of Jack Smith's indictment overall — as a work of legal argument and narrative, and also as an event in legal and political history?

The narrative here is one of betrayal of a nation and its most precious secrets by a man who was the commander in chief for four years and who seeks that mantle again. There's never been anything remotely like it.

Just think about it. The disregard for the lives, the risk and the individual courage that goes into gathering information vital to our national security and our safety is incomprehensible. There is no way for the brain to wrap itself around what is described in this indictment, the violation of sacred trust, a one-man demolition crew working against the American intelligence system that has been built, brick by brick, over 80 years.

[weatheriscool]

[weatheriscool]

'I Want Blood': Heavily-Armed Trump Supporters Say They'll Protest Trump's Indictment

Supporters of former president Donald Trump are planning mass protests at a Miami courthouse on Tuesday, following Trump’s indictment last week. Many are promising to come “well-armed.”

“MAGA will make Waco look like a tea party,” a user with the screen name 1776take2 wrote about the planned protest on the pro-Trump messaging board known as The Donald, which was instrumental to the planning of the Capitol riot. “I used to laugh when my mom said that she was afraid if she registered Republican she may be arrested one day. I’m not laughing any more. Just buying more ammo.”

In addition to the angry comments and plans posted anonymously on far-right message boards, Republican lawmakers, politicians, and right-wing pundits have also used incendiary language about Trump’s indictment. “We have now reached a war phase. Eye for an eye,” GOP Rep. Andy Biggs tweeted to his 730,000 Twitter followers.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d995k/ ... ests-miami

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