Ukraine War Watch Thread

[raklian]

from what hat did you get that concept?

In this thread... It is clear that this war is not a "total war".

...war crimes that may have been committed

War crimes have been committed in this war, by both sides; like in every other war, by every side. What is false there?, where is the distraction?
I mentioned it before, but let me make it clear again: I am not surprised and...
this one is just another war.
It will be a meme in 10 years.

Russia is the aggressor, period. The unequivocal fact is that Russia invaded Ukraine's sovereign territory unprovoked. You're attempting to minimize Russia's culpability as the aggressor by assigning equal blame on Ukraine when there is absolutely no justification for that. Civilian casualties in war is sadly a frequent occurrence and difficult to avoid but to say because Ukraine is killing civilians they are as much to blame as the Russians is nothing short of disingenuous and distracts from the real issue - Russia invading Ukraine's sovereign territory without its consent.

...might have involved being subject to slavery

Do you misunderstand things on purpose? In every Greek city they already had slaves. The fate of Greeks, slaves or barbarians could be different; as everything could be different in a war against barbarians even with no different "rules". (Taking "barbarians" as its original meaning: non-Greek).

Why are you talking about the Greeks in a thread about Ukraine's war with Russia? You have been warned multiple times not to bring in context that is not related to the thread topic. I hope you realize you're walking on very thin ice.

[ibm9000]

Russia is the aggressor, period.

Anyone said otherwise?


It is true that someone else said something else...

This is what your psychopathic leader is doing to innocent people in Ukraine...

- psychopathic
Do you have any medical qualifications?Just another comment, correct? Just to show how moderate and unbiased this site is.

- "Doing"
LBJ did anything?
Do you know of any war were "innocent people" were not 'done'... something?

Who is "your leader"?
Do you "know" if a have a leader? Do you "know" him?

- "Your leader" is:
Slander
Hate comment
Bullying
Nonsense
Just pure hate
Wishful thinking
Transference
"Your" moderation
Proof of how much trust we should put in (the administrators of) this site
The higher moral standards of this site
The behaviour recommended to the administrators of this site
or
whatever you like because you are master and god here?

(Nothing personal... but maybe a bit off-topic).

The Ancient Greek (and "slavery") were in a conversation between two people... about war, like this, because this is a war; even if I am not sure what difference he can see between "wars".
In my opinion (and I don't know if you are going to accept this as a valid opinion or if you are going to accept opinions at all; but I am pretty sure I read something about defending the opinion of someone else), killing people under the best intentions is, still, killing people.

[raklian]

Russia is the aggressor, period.

Anyone said otherwise?

That wasn't my main point, you know.

[caltrek]

In Latest Legal Clash, Ukraine Calls Russia a ‘Terrorist State’ at UN High Court
by Molly Quell
June 6, 2023

Introduction:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Courthouse News) — Ukraine and Russia returned to the United Nations' highest court on Tuesday for the opening day of hearings over claims that Russia repeatedly violated international law in border regions, just as Kyiv accused Moscow of destroying a major dam.

The Hague-based International Court of Justice, also known as the World Court, is holding two weeks of hearings stemming from accusations that the Kremlin fueled a campaign of intimidation and terror while illegally occupying parts of eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

“The past is prologue,” Ukraine’s ambassador-at-large Anton Korynevych told the U.N.’s top court, arguing that Russia’s activities nearly a decade ago were a harbinger of the full-scale invasion that has been raging for more than a year.

Ukraine first filed suit against Russia in 2017, claiming Moscow violated both the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, or ICSFT, and the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, abbreviated as CERD.

After a week of hearings, judges ruled in 2019 that the court had jurisdiction to take the dispute.

Read more here: https://www.courthousenews.com/in-late ... h-court/

[Xyls]

Not to complain too strongly about the moderation here, as I do have respect for the mods. But how many more warnings is ibm going to get? I'm sure if we went through this thread I would have more than enough warnings so far to justify a ban at this point.

Also there is no evidence this user is actually a futurist (you know the actual focus of this board) as they have never actually posted on any other thread on this board.

[wjfox]

He is now suspended for a month. Next time it'll be a permanent ban.

[funkervogt]

ibm9000 doesn't offer the strongest arguments, but I think it's important to have at least one person on the forum who stands for Russia's side. We can't get caught in a pro-Ukraine echo chamber.

[funkervogt]

Russian forces probably blew up the dam to create a flood that would temporarily block the Ukrainian offensive. The act also did major, long-lasting damage to the agricultural potential of southern Ukraine and Crimea. That might indicate that the Russians have so little faith in their ability to hold on to the region that their best option is to wreck it before Ukraine takes it over.

[Xyls]

ibm9000 doesn't offer the strongest arguments, but I think it's important to have at least one person on the forum who stands for Russia's side. We can't get caught in a pro-Ukraine echo chamber.

Here's the thing though. If you want to argue the Russian side be my guest.

However, here's my problem with IBM. Half the time he isn't making direct arguments he engaged in near incessant whataboutism that changes the focus off the topic. Also his posts are often cryptic nonsense that add nothing of substance. If IBM wants to provide some actually substantive analysis be my guest. But most of the time it's just some sentence of paranoid nonsense which occasionally goes into him trying to refute something with a omg do you remember what the U.S. did in the 1960s? This is not someone adding any substance.

On top of that IBM has never actually posted on any other threads on this board. We don't have to host people who are simply here to push an agenda at the end of the day this is a futurology board. Not your place to be a troll.

[Xyls]

Russian forces probably blew up the dam to create a flood that would temporarily block the Ukrainian offensive. The act also did major, long-lasting damage to the agricultural potential of southern Ukraine and Crimea. That might indicate that the Russians have so little faith in their ability to hold on to the region that their best option is to wreck it before Ukraine takes it over.

It's actually worse than this over the long run for Russia. They also flooded out their positions and lost a lot of manpower as well. Considering once water levels recede it may be very easy for Ukraine to actually push into Kherson now. Yeah, they get a month's worth of time, but this is probably more a political consideration for the Kremlin as right now they are trying to extend this conflict as long as possible because the Putin regime is not sure how it can lose the war and sustain political stability at home.

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-f ... 00784.html

This is an own-goal in the long run, and goes to show the short term thinking inside the Kremlin right now. There is no master plan for the area. And as we saw with the US in Afghanistan/Iraq. When you don't have an endgame in mind you will eventually lose.

[funkervogt]

Yeah, he only makes two types of arguments: 1) "What about when the U.S./West did it, too?" and 2) "How can you prove your claim/source is accurate?"

They're low-quality types of arguments, but sometimes he still makes valid points. Keep in mind Ukraine puts out propaganda every day, and Western news outlets have a pro-Ukraine bias. It's useful to have someone around to at least make us stop and think about what our primary sources of info are claiming before we accept them.

[Cyber_Rebel]

ibm9000 doesn't offer the strongest arguments, but I think it's important to have at least one person on the forum who stands for Russia's side. We can't get caught in a pro-Ukraine echo chamber.

@Erowind doesn't really argue for Russia's side, but they have a more unique anti-war approach to the whole situation which is more about non-escalation and opposing propaganda in any of its forms. (I see that you mention the latter as a concern in your recent post)

I may not always agree with Erowind in regard to this conflict, but I think that opinion is more meaningful and at least better argued than the Russo fascist perspective. Granted, I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread for a while, but the few posts I've read from the Hal-9000 poster have indeed been some cryptic gaslighting.

[funkervogt]

It's actually worse than this over the long run for Russia. They also flooded out their positions and lost a lot of manpower as well.

It's still to early to say how many people on both sides died. The Russians have had major problems with communication and coordination between their own units, and some of them hate each other. A failure to warn all the downstream units about the dam being blown up in advance would be entirely within character for the Russian forces. The lives of the Wagner troops are valued the least of all.

[funkervogt]

A major ammonia pipeline in a Russian-controlled area of Ukraine was blown up, releasing huge quantities of the poisonous gas. Both sides blame the other.

The pipeline stopped operating after Moscow sent troops to Ukraine in February 2022.

The resumption of Russia's ammonia exports through the link is one of Moscow's conditions to continue with the grain export deal, which allows safe passage for Ukrainian grain shipments.

https://www.barrons.com/news/russia-acc ... y-96363315

This and the destruction of the Kakhovka dam will reduce global food production.

[wjfox]

[funkervogt]

Again, the Russians almost certainly blew up the dam.

[funkervogt]

Though Ukraine's government is still silent on the matter, multiple Ukrainian, Russian, and U.S. sources say the Ukrainian counteroffensive started last night. Ukraine launched major attacks in three different parts of the Russian frontlines.

[weatheriscool]

CNN:Ukrainian forces suffer 'stiff resistance' and losses in assault on Russian lines
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/08/politics ... index.html

Ukrainian forces have suffered losses in heavy equipment and soldiers as they met greater than expected resistance from Russian forces in their first attempt to breach Russian lines in the east of the country in recent days, two senior US officials tell CNN.

One US official described the losses – which include US supplied MRAP armored personnel vehicles as “significant.”

Ukrainian forces managed to overrun some Russian forces in the east around Bakhmut. However, Russian forces, armed with anti-tank missiles, grenades and mortars, have put up “stiff resistance,” with their forces dug into defensive lines that are several layers deep in some areas and marked by minefields that have taken a heavy toll on Ukrainian armored vehicles.

[weatheriscool]

[funkervogt]

Video of a Ukrainian tank unit after it was defeated by Russian artillery strikes. Several Western tanks are seen damaged and abandoned.