23rd Century Los Angeles

[TimeBender]

Los Angeles was an economic powerhouse in the 23rd century and was apart of the United States, a major global power whose flag featured the usual thirteen red and white stripes representing the original colonies, but instead of 50 stars in the top left corner, there was an eagle and shield gripping arrows and olive branches in its claws from the Great Seal of the United States. I believe the world order was multi-polar, however, the United States still retained an extremely dominant position on the global stage, especially in North America. The continental American identity/culture had evolved and the fashion, architecture, and infrastructure was similar yet different, but overall minimalistic and clean. The interesting thing is this felt unquestionably “American”, yet the actual civilization was completely foreign and alien as they spoke differently, their politics were different, their urban planning was different, and their worldview was completely different, although 21st and 22nd (and some very latent 20th) century influences permeated.

In terms of culture, girls wore fitted shirts with two-tone horizontal stripes and black shorts while I saw a man wearing a long-sleeve dark shirt over black shorts. People seemed generally fit and in-shape as obesity and other diseases seemed to be more-or-less a thing of the past. Most of the faux-Mediterranean buildings of 21st century Southern California had been replaced by these minimalistic white high-rises that looked almost modular since each story was rotated at a different angle. Lots of greenery had been planted and matured in the LA Basin and the San Fernando Valley. The suburban-sprawl and endless freeway infrastructure of the 20th and 21st centuries had been replaced by simpler roads and high-rises, although there was a relatively cheaply-constructed elevated freeway that followed the route of the current I-10 south of downtown Los Angeles, although not the original structure. One plausibility is that there was a big earthquake in the 22nd century that destroyed a lot of the old buildings and infrastructure. What shocked me was the ethnic makeup of people in Los Angeles were homogenous and they were descendants of: Hispanics, Whites, Asians, Blacks, Indians, and more. The language was also quite different and unintelligible with different vocabulary, pronunciations, and grammatical rules, although some words and slang from the 21st century survived into the 23rd century. The society was materially prosperous, with the average citizen enjoying a middle-class to upper-middle class lifestyle, with extreme wealth disparities on both ends of the financial spectrum being much smaller. The urban footprint of Los Angeles looked very white because of the roads and buildings were very light-colored. Interestingly, a lot of the old freeways and suburban subdivisions of the 20th century had returned back to agriculture in the LA Basin, with coastal communities such as Santa Monica, Torrance, and Huntington Beach (for example) being disconnected from the main Los Angeles sprawl, although the core footprint of the road network for LA had remained static.

Personally, I believe the United States will continue to exist in a form that is identifiable with what the Founding Fathers had created in the 18th century for another 800-900 years, so with that in mind I believe the United States will exist until the 29th century.

[firestar464]

idk if i agree with the geopolitical analysis but the rest seems like a decent scenario

welcome to the forum

[TimeBender]

idk if i agree with the geopolitical analysis but the rest seems like a decent scenario

welcome to the forum

What exactly don't you agree with?

[firestar464]

the idea that nothing drastically changes on the intl stage, it feels a little like a person in 1750 assuming that the Holy Roman Empire would still exist in 1950

but that's just me, it's hard to extrapolate this far out when you don't assume that AGI/ASI just straight up transitions us to posthumanism

[TimeBender]

the idea that nothing drastically changes on the intl stage, it feels a little like a person in 1750 assuming that the Holy Roman Empire would still exist in 1950

but that's just me, it's hard to extrapolate this far out when you don't assume that AGI/ASI just straight up transitions us to posthumanism

I never said that the USA’s position didn’t change on the world stage. The USA didn’t project as much power across the Pacific but projected its power across the Atlantic. Also, the United States is nothing like the HRE which was far more decentralized, surrounded by other powers, and never held a cultural, economic, and military global hegemony, but even then the HRE lasted for around 1,000 years. The USA as a nation is still quite young, especially for an ultra-powerful and somewhat culturally homogenous state.

The problem is assuming that the United States is somehow in its late-stage or is declining (which of course is the dominant narrative on the internet since people react emotionally to negative cycles within their lifetime). I actually am extremely confident that the United States has far more centuries ahead of it than behind it. In fact, I think the United States will define space-colonization throughout the 3rd millennium.

I am simply reporting what I saw from what felt like maybe early 23rd century Los Angeles and the USA was alive and well and American identity was as strong as ever, however, the actual society itself was foreign and alien to me as someone who is living in the early 21st century America.

[firestar464]

Well yeah! I have no issue with the rest of it

[Cyber_Rebel]

First off, welcome to the forums TimeBender!

Now, on this topic, I honestly believe that it'll be nearly impossible to determine how things will be by the 23rd century. It's hard to determine how things will be 10-20 years out from now given the recent technological developments, yet alone what geopolitical ramifications these will have.

The current administration for example and the last decade in general would've been unimaginable to many prior, and our geopolitical landscape has been filled with flux and uncertainty.

Your post likely should have compared the U.S. by the end of this century or even the middle (2050) honestly. By the 23rd century we might be a whole new species entirely or supplanted by one. We might want to consider if AI agent swarms with their own level of power and resources as "nations" at some point, given the economic power and leverage they might have.

[TimeBender]

First off, welcome to the forums TimeBender!

Now, on this topic, I honestly believe that it'll be nearly impossible to determine how things will be by the 23rd century. It's hard to determine how things will be 10-20 years out from now given the recent technological developments, yet alone what geopolitical ramifications these will have.

The current administration for example and the last decade in general would've been unimaginable to many prior, and our geopolitical landscape has been filled with flux and uncertainty.

Your post likely should have compared the U.S. by the end of this century or even the middle (2050) honestly. By the 23rd century we might be a whole new species entirely or supplanted by one. We might want to consider if AI agent swarms with their own level of power and resources as "nations" at some point, given the economic power and leverage they might have.

I actually believe that time is a material illusion and that it is possible to dissolve that “illusion” through highly-meditative states, thus this report of what a small slice of the United States looked like in the 23rd century. I think people underestimate how resilient the United States is and overestimate how disruptive AI-systems will be, which to me are just ultra-intelligent tools, but are still just that—tools.

The CIA has conducted remote-viewing experiments in the late-20th century where they would find subjects from all over the world and have them do specific meditations and interview them about what they saw about the United States in the mid-21st century. They compiled all the answers that were most commonly reported across all the subjects. What was commonly reported was a less legitimate federal government, corporatism, cashless society, underwater Florida, and legalized marijuana. However, just because the legitimacy of the federal government had diminished, the prosperity of the nation was still astronomically high, especially in the context of all of human history. I personally have visited the late-21st century Los Angeles and the city itself was remarkably similar to today but actually a bit cleaner and nicer, and yes it was cashless and there were lots of ethnic Indians living in the Western LA basin and they were culturally assimilated to mainstream American culture. 60-80 years is an extremely short stretch of time for history and in many ways the world won’t really be that much different. The mid-21st century is nothing and the year 2050 is very close to today. In fact, we are closer to 2050 than we are to 2000, and realistically the world was not that overwhelmingly alien only 26 years ago.

The society I experienced in the 23rd century was distinctly “American” in the sense that they were the descendants of modern Americans and the political state was a continuation of what the Founding Fathers had built, but after several generations, every aspect of society is bound to be different, which is exactly how it felt. Similar but also foreign.

[Cyber_Rebel]

Okay, I'm not attempting to disregard your spiritual beliefs here, but you're saying AI is being overestimated in its disruption, while it's literally in the middle of solving Millenium Prize problems, while citing an unproven study on people having "visions" about some future of the United States?

And you're saying you have "traveled" to these future versions of L.A.?

Again, I'm not attempting to diminish your personal experiences or what you think you have experienced here subjectively, but objectively, I just can't see that due to the rate of exponential change.

I do agree that the world might not have been "overwhelmingly" alien, 26 years ago, but as someone who remembers that time period, much too is and feels different across the spectrum, especially in the geopolitical sense. Technologically; smartphones, the internet, medicine, our understanding of certain sciences, these domains have altered the landscape quite dramatically. And that is before even mentioning AI.

Geopolitically, everything since Brexit has been a whirlwind, even the idea of the United States being at odds with ally nations like Canada or the EU was unthinkable once. Considering what the date is though, after 9/11 the geopolitical landscape changed for obvious reasons, and one can't predict another such similar historical change, Covid-19 being that obvious other example.

If you took someone out of the year 2000 and placed them within 2026, they'd likely be taken aback by how amazingly powerful computers have become compared to that point in time, and how much our economy and work revolves around the internet. They'd likely also feel like the future was here in some sense when being shown the various robotics, VR, video game progression, smartphones, AI, etc. But I'd imagine they could still adapt.

2050 from our current point in time is likely to be far different if the rate of change happening now continues. Robotics will be more prolific, superintelligence will have vast ranging effects we can't even articulate, self-driving cars being the standard, quantum computers might have displaces classical ones, space travel tourism could be much more common, and many diseases might even be eradicated if all goes well. Of course, this is just a hypothetical from me.

[firestar464]

furthermore there is quite literally no proof that dreamings or imaginings correspond to anything outside the brain's internal activity

you would have to reject the field of neuroscience with no rigorously tested alternative to believe that (the CIA remote experiments were notoriously flawed in execution, and said programs don't fit your description of future prediction in regards to the 21st century)

[TimeBender]

furthermore there is quite literally no proof that dreamings or imaginings correspond to anything outside the brain's internal activity

you would have to reject the field of neuroscience with no rigorously tested alternative to believe that (the CIA remote experiments were notoriously flawed in execution, and said programs don't fit your description of future prediction in regards to the 21st century)

Well of course there isn’t any scientific “proof”, but my futuristic insights are not bound by the Earthly material sciences. You can dismiss it and that’s fine since I’m not asking you to believe me, I’m simply reporting what I’ve seen myself. And I have no doubt the remote viewing experiments weren’t perfect, however, they were able to give a lot of insight into the 21st century that would’ve been near-impossible for the average person in the 1970s.

[TimeBender]

Okay, I'm not attempting to disregard your spiritual beliefs here, but you're saying AI is being overestimated in its disruption, while it's literally in the middle of solving Millenium Prize problems, while citing an unproven study on people having "visions" about some future of the United States?

And you're saying you have "traveled" to these future versions of L.A.?

Again, I'm not attempting to diminish your personal experiences or what you think you have experienced here subjectively, but objectively, I just can't see that due to the rate of exponential change.

I do agree that the world might not have been "overwhelmingly" alien, 26 years ago, but as someone who remembers that time period, much too is and feels different across the spectrum, especially in the geopolitical sense. Technologically; smartphones, the internet, medicine, our understanding of certain sciences, these domains have altered the landscape quite dramatically. And that is before even mentioning AI.

Geopolitically, everything since Brexit has been a whirlwind, even the idea of the United States being at odds with ally nations like Canada or the EU was unthinkable once. Considering what the date is though, after 9/11 the geopolitical landscape changed for obvious reasons, and one can't predict another such similar historical change, Covid-19 being that obvious other example.

If you took someone out of the year 2000 and placed them within 2026, they'd likely be taken aback by how amazingly powerful computers have become compared to that point in time, and how much our economy and work revolves around the internet. They'd likely also feel like the future was here in some sense when being shown the various robotics, VR, video game progression, smartphones, AI, etc. But I'd imagine they could still adapt.

2050 from our current point in time is likely to be far different if the rate of change happening now continues. Robotics will be more prolific, superintelligence will have vast ranging effects we can't even articulate, self-driving cars being the standard, quantum computers might have displaces classical ones, space travel tourism could be much more common, and many diseases might even be eradicated if all goes well. Of course, this is just a hypothetical from me.

Yes, I have seen firsthand Los Angeles in the late-21st century multiple times, in addition to traveling to both the past (such as the Bronze Age, Ancient Mediterranean, Tudor England, & 19th-century USA) and the future multiple times over the past several years. Matte-finished cars by the 2070s, and self-driving remaining optional in the 2080s since people don’t like giving up their freedom to drive.

Look, I understand why it sounds crazy and delusional, and I’m not asking you to believe me, but I am confident in these reports and am willing to bet real money that they will come true.

Also, I don’t think the events that have transpired since 2000 really are that radical for an almost 30 year timespan. Even if you include the technological innovations (like smartphones), the world really hasn’t changed that much in the grand scheme of things. What’s happening in the United States is an anomaly and is because of Trump’s ego, but I guarantee you that once Gavin Newsom is elected president in 2028 everything will go back to “normal” (as if there’s such thing as normal). Even Brexit is not that crazy politically since it was merely a referendum to leave a trade-union, not even a country. However, once the European Union State comes into existence, I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK comes back.

A lot of technology can change and evolve under the hood while the actual feeling of daily life remains more-or-less similar. VR is a novelty that could’ve replaced traditional gaming if it was actually fun to use. AI will just become more integrated into digital systems and infrastructure to the point where nobody will even be thinking of “AI” since it will be ubiquitous. And yes, I think most diseases will be eradicated during the 21st century with healthcare facilities primarily focused on blunt-force trauma. The 2050s-60s will still be remarkably similar in the grand-scheme of things. Smartphones will look similar, roads and infrastructure will look the same, etc… Sure, there will absolutely be differences (particularly from climate change), but 2050 is within many of our lifetimes so it objectively isn’t that far.

AI really isn’t any more disruptive than any major technological innovations of the past. There was a lot of resistance to automated factories in the 19th century over fears of losing jobs. Time is in many ways cyclical and nothing that’s happening today is really that unique. And yes, society in 23rd-century Los Angeles is completely alien while still being 100% “American” as a completely evolved version of the culture/civilization. If you think 25 years is long then wait till you witness the results of 200 years of incremental societal change.